I was pleased to be asked to appear on the successful RT news program The Alyona Show earlier today. The interview was offered as a follow-up to an investigatory article published at Truthout last week, which showed that all protestations by Donald Rumsfeld and U.S. government authorities aside, the U.S. military did engage in torture remarkably similar to waterboarding, if not waterboarding itself. An accompanying article was also posted here at The Dissenter.
Alyona Minkovski is one of a handful of broadcasters who have been following the torture scandal and the ongoing US wars abroad, bringing on experts with a point of view seldom or never heard on other mainstream news programs. Keith Olbermann also did a segment on August 4 for Current TV, with commentary by Jeremy Scahill, on my investigation into DoD water torture, remarking that ”our understanding of our history of torture by this country has just been advanced by this story.”
My investigation, based on multiple detainee accounts, news reports, doctor review of selected Guantanamo medical records, testimony before a Congressional committee, and Department of Justice and Department of Defense investigations, revealed that a number of detainees at different DoD sites, including Guantanamo, were held down and had streams of water from a hose directed for minutes at a time between their mouth and nose. Other detainees had their heads stuffed into toilets or buckets of water. The Truthout article also detailed instances in which military officials — and in one case, former Vice President Dick Cheney himself — requested or directed that waterboarding take place.
More Rumsfeld Lies About Whether He “Approved” Waterboarding or Not
Donald Rumsfeld claims that he rejected the use of waterboarding when it was suggested to him in a memo in late 2002, writing in his recent memoir, “When military interrogators at Guantanamo Bay sent up their chain of command a request to use waterboarding in late 2002, I rejected it.”
But the truth is DoD’s legal counsel, William Haynes, recommended in a memo in November 2002 a number of coercive interrogation techniques, noting that waterboarding “may be legally available”, though he advised against its use, as well as a few other highly coercive torture techniques “at this time.” Rumsfeld signed off on the memo. He did not reject Haynes’ characterization that waterboarding “may be legally available.” Yet Rumsfeld must have been aware that numerous legal experts within DoD itself and its various service branches had serious doubts about its legality.
Given that the US public has been told to accept the narrative that waterboarding was restricted to the CIA, and to only (!) three victims of CIA torture, I’ve decided to continue with this investigation with the aim of correcting this faulty narrative. As I wrote in my Dissenter piece, “the use of water torture and waterboarding or quasi-waterboarding can only represent a pattern of such kinds of torture, which has been kept out of the public eye through a combination of secrecy, and artfully framing the issue around a definition of waterboarding that is meant to exclude examination of the full use of such water-drowning torture.”
Meanwhile, since I wrote the original Truthout story, I’ve found at least four more cases of DoD “water treatment” or “water torture,” which involved the submersion of DoD prisoners into water, or the forced choking of detainees with application of water. I’ll be posting more on this in an upcoming article. But I should note that even formal, CIA-style waterboarding may have also taken place.
In an interview with The Talking Dog in May 2007, one of the attorneys for the Guantanamo detainees, Brent Mickum, who also represents Abu Zubaydah, explained what he heard about waterboarding at Guantanamo:
After my recent C-Span appearance, someone called me and spoke to me at length, telling me (without giving his name) that he was a guard at the GTMO camps. He told me that he and other guards were instructed to brutalize prisoners. He confirmed that water-boarding, which he called “drown-proofing” took place. This individual knew extensive details of the camp layout and the names of military personnel. Eventually, the full story will be released and people will be shocked at the extent of the depravity.
In the video accompanying this post, I explain to Alyona why the US government has played around with the semantics of what is waterboarding, why this issue has not been investigated officially, and why it is Congress has refused to act on this information, even when it was formally presented before them. — I should add that it was a pleasure to be interviewed by someone as well-informed and also passionate about the issue as Alyona clearly was.



19 Comments

Thanks Alyona and Jenny!
Great job, Jeff!!!! You’re doing important work.
I’ve been watching The Alyona Show for the last several weeks and I am really enjoying most of it. I’ve been wondering what others think of it because I hadn’t really seen it mentioned prior to coming across it via a YouTube recommendation. I’m glad to know that you would name her in a paragraph alongside Keith Olbermann and Jeremy Scahill.
Looks like Lawfare, the blog run by Benjamin Wittes, Jack Goldsmith, and Robert Chesney, couldn’t let this story go by without an attempt to dismiss it. The link within the quote goes to a repost of the Truthout article at The Public Record:
How can they say I gathered reports of “waterboarding-like tortures” and then not “offer any examples of the military’s using waterboarding”? That’s why it’s “waterboarding-like”! Perhaps the author, Raffaela Wakeman, never really read the whole article. (I mentioned not just Guantanamo, but Kandahar and Iraq in the article.) Perhaps they will enjoy reading the Mickum quote above. Or they can go back and listen to Murat Kurnaz’s testimony before the Senate Foreign Affairs subcommittee? Etc.
Also, interesting I’ve become an “aggregator” now. Will I make as much money as Huff Post? Instead, they want to dismiss my analysis. But I find it interesting they had to comment on this at all. Do ex-Bush administration officials worry about what yet might come out? Is the Pope German?
Go, Jeffrey!
The real story has to be told. America has been fact blackedout for far too long!
Wish I could have been there for the training session. What makes it torture? The fact you are drowning your victim, or whether or not a board is involved?
I thought water treatment was a term used by cities to describe clorination to the water. Not trying to drown people!
Great work. I have one observation though, in the RT video that’s looped over and over of the guy being “waterboarded”, the water is being splashed around his eyes, NOT up his nose as is the real practice. I have a feeling that’s why he’s not squirming in desperation as would be the case if the example were authentic.
That volunteer can breathe. The video makes the practice appear tame, and I would surmise, is Pentagon propaganda.
RT TV and RT.com have some of the most honest clear news reporting -
and I like the irony of Russia teaching the US about itself because our own media will not do anything to annoy their corporate sponsors/owners.
There is also a bit that is over the top – but then we have Fox
LOL – you wrote a great article – and I enjoy the guilt – really just fear of punishment – that is the response.
Better to be an aggregator than a litigator for power. From the top down, these Lawfare wonks seem like they provide Newspeak for an audience on law on a regular basis and think they are doing some kind of a public good.
We get portions of the RT channel on PBS, they seem to have realistic coverage of news stories, especially compared to MSMtv. You are doing great work, Jeff. Just a drive-by, have to come back later to take this all in, but just wanted to say thanks. Keep pushing the truth out there!
The Alyona show is great, and I’ve been following her on twitter. Love independent journalists who cover real issues!
“Another Day, Another Person Suing Donald Rumsfeld for Torture” (by emptywheel, Aug. 8, 2011)
Good work Jeff and Alyona!
Maybe Alyona can do a spot on the new film, “The Whistleblower,” (trailer linked; find showings by your zip code here) as discussed by “Contractor Accountability and Human Trafficking at Center of Upcoming Film, The Whistleblower” (POGO.Org, by Nick Schwellenbach, Aug. 2, 2011) and take a look at POGO‘s whistle-blower film festival on Capitol Hill during the month of October?
The Alyona Show is also available on YouTube, in complete shows as well as individual segments. One regular segment I really like is “You Said It, I Read It” where she actually responds to comments from Twitter, YouTube and Facebook.
I think you’re right, but they destroyed the tapes that had the real waterboarding, remember?
On the other hand, the Penatgon had lots of recordings from Guantanamo. It was said every single interrogation is/was recorded, but on hard drives. It’s said they would tape over the hard drives, but much could be forensically recovered, I’d imagine, but of course, there is no prosecutor asking for same.
To Paupau @10 – they’re not used to people holding them to account
To pastfedup – come on by more often
To Kevin – Yes, that’s their job.
Alyona Minkovski did an interview with Brian Lamb last Sunday, the 7th, on CSPAN, for anyone interested.
Jeff Kaye: Good work!
“Remember?”
I’ve loosely followed Hellerstein’s rulings ever since he helped establish the protocal the Pentagon can do whatever it wants. I have zero faith in this country’s civilian control of the military. The fact that the populace in general have not been subjected to brutal treatment and suppression yet is not evidence we’re not living in a police state.
Unfortunately, I believe you are totally correct. And not “unfortunately” because it comes from you, but from the terrible fact of the matter. Of course, should note, for various reasons, maybe not the “populace in general” but a large number have been subjected to brutal treatment and suppression for years, e.g., African-Americans, particularly the poor, immigrants, some Muslims, Latinos, etc. It doesn’t reach back very far to remember, too, Cointelpro, or speaking currently, of those the FBI and DoJ are harassing, have under surveillance, etc.