A new proposed “casebook” on psychologist ethics in national security settings, written by the Ethics Committee of the American Psychological Association (APA), tells psychologists that when assessing whether an interrogation technique is abusive or not, they should consider, among other factors, whether there are “data to support that the technique is effective in gathering accurate information.” This determination, which places the needs of the military or intelligence gathering entity above that of the person the psychologist is examining, demonstrates how blatantly unethical it is for psychologists to participate in these interrogations.
While it’s shocking that APA would call upon psychologists to weigh an interrogation technique’s “effectiveness” with other ethical standards, it’s even crazier when one considers it took them six years to write this up, having been originally tasked with writing an “ethics casebook” for interrogations back in 2005.
The vignettes that would compose the “casebook” were apparently posted (PDF) by APA for public comments last June, but APA failed to notify their membership, or really anyone. The earliest comment posted was on August 18. In a comment posted by Nina Thomas, a psychologist who was one of the few non-military, non-intelligence-linked members on the 2005 Psychological Ethics and National Security (PENS) panel hastily assembled to formulate APA policy on psychologists and interrogations, Thomas decried the lack of notification of the membership.
“A barely three month period for responses does not seem adequate when we have not previously known anything about the progress on this work,” Thomas wrote. She also indicated that progress on the casebook’s development had not been regularly reported to APA’s Council of Representatives. (The mandate to produce such a “casebook” goes back to 2005.) Thomas had other criticisms as well, writing, “It is my hope and aim that the Ethics Committee will seriously rethink its charge and return to Council with a request for a revised mandate.”
The petition resolution affirmed by the membership of APA [in 2008] makes perfectly clear that psychologists are prohibited from working in settings in which people are held outside of or in violation of either international law or the U.S. Constitution. The only exceptions to this prohibition are in cases in which a psychologist is working directly for the person being detained, for an independent third party working to protect human rights or providing treatment to military personnel. These major and ultimately most important points do not have sufficient presence in this casebook as currently devised.
Over and over the APA “casebook” advises members to seek “consultation” about any difficult ethical situation, while advising psychologists to rely on a host of human rights documents, APA resolutions, and the APA ethics code to “guide” them. But psychologists shouldn’t even be in these torture settings to begin with!
The petition resolution referenced by Thomas was a member-initiated petition that was passed in a referendum vote in 2008 by a membership unhappy with APA’s policy on interrogations, and implemented by APA’s Council in 2009. The resolution states that “psychologists may not work in settings where persons are held outside of, or in violation of, either International Law (e.g., the UN Convention Against Torture and the Geneva Conventions) or the US Constitution (where appropriate), unless they are working directly for the persons being detained or for an independent third party working to protect human rights.”
But APA has adamantly refused to set up a process that would actually determine when such a detention setting is in violation of the law, even while sententiously expressing “grave concern” over reports of torture and abuse at U.S. military and CIA interrogation and detention centers. According to one “casebook” instruction, “the psychologist … would need to determine whether the site is a lawful or unlawful detention setting.” If APA can’t or won’t make such a determination, how can they expect an individual psychologist to do this, and feel they will be backed up by their organization for doing so?
APA has refused to follow the policy of the American Medical Association and the American Psychiatric Association in instructing their membership not to participate in interrogations. Indeed, it was the contention of the 2005 APA PENS panel that “it is consistent with the APA Ethics Code for psychologists to serve in consultative roles to interrogation and information-gathering processes for national security-related purposes, as psychologists have a long-standing tradition of doing in other law enforcement contexts.”
Nothing in the new “casebook” is really any different than the position APA derived in the 2005 PENS report (PDF). The psychologist is supposed to walk an ethical tightrope while serving as “consultant” to interrogations, admonished to report torture or other cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment (as defined by law), and to engage in research beneficial to national security aims. All the while, APA’s seemingly benign admonishments cover a policy of support to detention and interrogation policies that amount to torture, using various legalistic loopholes built into a 2002 rewrite of the Ethics Code to allow the unethical use of psychologist expertise to brain-trust the torture.
APA concludes that psychologists should report torture to the “appropriate authorities.” Furthermore, “If the psychologist was not satisfied with the result of reporting such concerns, the psychologist would consider other reporting avenues such as the judge advocate and/or the inspector general.” It all sounds good, until you realize that such reporting rarely goes anywhere, and it beggars all knowledge of social psychology to believe that one individual will buck an entire system and put their careers on the line to protest. This is even more true when one considers that previous investigations of detainee torture have either minimized or covered up significant aspects of the torture.
The one case that APA often cites where a psychologist protested torture concerns NCIS psychologist Michael Gelles, who protested the torture protocol for Mohamed Al Qahtani. Two salient points are connected with that case. One is that it didn’t stop the torture, both of Al Qahtani, nor the spread of the torture program throughout the Department of Defense. Two, Gelles was not just protesting a torture protocol, he was proposing a different program of psychological torture based primarily on the application of extreme isolation of the prisoner, who was reportedly already manifesting psychotic behavior.
Another example of the impotency of the policy of protest concerns the CIA torture of Abu Zubaydah. Planned by two former SERE psychologists, James Mitchell and Bruce Jessen, the “enhanced interrogation techniques” applied to Zubaydah, which included stress positions, placing him into a closed box with insects, waterboarding, sleep deprivation and more, led then chief operational psychologist for the C.I.A.’s counterterrorism center, R. Scott Shumate to leave the interrogation “in disgust, leaving before the most dire tactics had commenced,” according to a 2007 article by Katherine Eban in Vanity Fair.
There is no evidence that Shumate protested the torture up the chain of command. Indeed, the torture continued, and was extended to others. Shumate, whatever he did, was rewarded by being put on the APA PENS panel.
APA cannot help but confuse the “casebook” instructions by mixing use of the ethics code as a guideline with advice laid down by DoD in the Army Field Manual for interrogations: “‘If the proposed approach technique were used by the enemy against one of your fellow soldiers, would you believe the soldier had been abused?’…. if the answer to this question is yes, ‘the contemplated action should not be conducted.’” The problem is, as has been amply documented, it is the military and/or CIA psychologists who are proposing the “techniques” to begin with, or following orders from those higher in the chain of command (see here, and here, and here, for instance).
Psychologists Speak Out
Dan Aalbers, one of the authors of the APA petition resolution told The Dissenter, “I didn’t understand until fairly recently how few obligations remain in the APA’s ethics code: if you use these quite useful pdfs [comparing the 1992 and 2002 ethical codes] and search for words and phrases that denote obligation — ‘must’ ‘should’, ‘do not’ and ‘obligation’ itself — you will quickly find that most of these phrases appear in the 1992 revision of the ethics code and, more often than not, the 2002 code saddles psychologists with no obligation greater than due consideration. Psychologists ‘must’ consider the consequences their actions — but they are not prevented from doing much…. The 2002 ethics code should be thrown out and the 1992 code — with its strictures on informed consent, on clarification of role, and obligations to avoid multiple relationships — reinstated.”
One good example of what Aalbers is talking about is Section 3.04 of the Ethics Code, to which the “casebook” authors often refer. It states, “Psychologists take reasonable steps to avoid harming their clients/patients…” Not “Do Not Harm,” but the taking of “reasonable steps.” Indeed, until the membership and some of the human rights community raised a hullaballoo, and even then only after eight years of stalling, did APA change its code last year regarding ethical conflicts with organizational authorities. Before this change, since 2002 the APA has instructed its membership that resolution of such conflicts could be resolved by simply following the authority in question (like the military) and not the ethical standard, should they be in conflict. Critics called this the Nuremberg Defense, referencing many a Nazi’s defense against war crimes with the refrain that he was “only following orders.”
Another psychologist who has been active in opposing APA’s policies on interrogation, former president of Psychologists for Social Responsibility Stephen Soldz, also told The Dissenter that he was worried about aspects of the Ethics Code that relate to research. “Remember,” Soldz said, “that [Ethics Codes] 8.05 ['Dispensing with Informed Consent'] and 8.07 ['Deception in Research'] still remain. 8.05 removes the requirement for informed consent for institutional research. And 8.07 raises the bar for psychological distress to rule out research deception, using language similar to the Convention Against Torture’s definition of psychological torture. Meanwhile, the High Value Detainee Interrogation Group currently has former APA fellow Susan Brandon as Research Director. The HIG may have conducted and is apparently intending to conduct research on detainees. There are persistent rumors that research on detainees occurred as recent as last year (I’m not saying it ended, just have no current sources) in both Iraq and Afghanistan. While we don’t know the nature of this research, there are some indications in the press that raise alarm.
“All this is simply to say that the interrogation issue is not a matter of the Bush administration and the past. Rather, it is still alive. And we should remember that research may have played a larger role in the need for psychologists than many of us originally realized.”
Martha Davis, a forensic psychologist who has just completed a documentary about psychologists, interrogations and torture, “Doctors of the Dark Side,” in a statement to The Dissenter cautioned that no fine tuning of the “casebook” would make things better (for the record, I was interviewed by Davis as part of the documentary):
I worry that IF the Ethics Committee were ever to do the right thing, extend the deadline, open the discussion up, and somehow put together another, much better Casebook that incorporated these suggestions and other good ones, then in effect, the casebook process would reinforce and “legitimize” the practice of having psychologists directly involved in interrogations. Every significant health and human rights organization has condemn this practice except the APA. The simple versions of “no direct involvement in interrogations” adopted by the AMA and ApA are understandable to everyone and the only way to guarantee that doctors “keep in their lane” etc., etc. We know so much more now than we did in 2005 — so much of it ominous and disturbing. The practice is spreading beyond “national security” interrogations to US law enforcement settings. BSCT psychologists violate at least 10 parts of the APA Ethics Code (and that’s without torture), and the role is incompatible with the new Specialty Guidelines of Forensic Psychology.
Len Rubenstein, Senior Scholar, Center for Human Rights and Public Health, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, wrote an op-ed at Huffington Post last week, indicating he believed that a recent rewrite by APA of its forensic psychology guidelines should apply to psychologists and interrogations. Rubenstein, calling the PENS ethical guidelines ”ethically untenable, little more than a shabby rationalization for severe ethical violations,” noted that APA’s new Specialty Guidelines for Forensic Psychologists call for complete transparency with the client, and eschews use of deception, both the opposite of military/CIA practice.
The guidelines also render intolerable the conflict of interest at the heart of the psychologists’ role — at once to advance intelligence gathering and to act as a “safety officer.” The conflict, moreover, is likely to be resolved in favor of pressing for information, since the psychologists involved are classified as combatants, not clinicians (though they must be licensed to practice), and assigned to an intelligence chain of command. Whereas PENS sought to fudge the conflict by urging a “delicate balance of ethical considerations” the Specialty Guidelines insist on adherence to core obligations of integrity and fairness and avoidance of involvement in roles with conflicts of interest.
But according to forensic psychologist Karen Franklin, “These guidelines are not enforceable. And, like all such professional guidelines, they will be subject to diverse interpretations.”
And it is in such a forest of conflicting interpretations, vague instructions, unenforceable prohibitions against torture, and the like, that APA hides complicity in the U.S. torture program, having determined that “national security psychology” is the wave of the future. The lack of accountability for psychologist collaboration with torture is the background for the entire discussion. It is more incumbent than ever that psychologists and other mental health professionals speak out against this amalgam of psychological science and practice with the art of coercive interrogation and persuasion, of the marriage of psychology with torture.



54 Comments

Right after posting, I was informed of a mistake by including CIA psychologist as a member of PENS. He wasn’t, and I’ve taken that sentence out.
Hubbard was an organizer, along with Susan Brandon, of the 2004 APA/CIA/Rand Corp. workshop that examined ways of “overwhelming the senses” of prisoners to determine “deception.”
Meanwhile, to get a sense of the ugly ways the national security psychologists express themselves on this issue, check out Hubbard’s 2007 screed, “Psychologists and Interrogations: What’s Torture Got to Do With It?”
Apparently opposing psychologists working at torture sites is another way to feed our egos…. who’d a thunk it?
This is all just a misunderstanding. Those guys thought it was called the hypocritic oath; you know, say one thing, do the other. Besides, those “bad guys” weren’t really “patients” per se, they were subjects in experiments, there’s a BIG difference, Mengele said so.
I read this post late last night, Jeff. I was disgusted beyond words then, and I remain disgusted, late this morning.
You and I have long agreed that the APA is a “front” organization. This “Casebook” provides the undeniable truth of that fact to any others who care to wonder, to know the truth.
Frankly, I do not and cannot understand why ANY psychologist should wish or desire to belong to such a “professional” society as the APA.
ANY “healers” who do NOT understand, “FIRST, do NO harm,” are neither healers nor worthy of respect among those who are.
When the APA’s membership has dwindled down to those who would, happily, endorse such “reasoning” as this “Casebook” suggests, then it shall be clear that those members are motivated by base “instinct” centering primarily around greed, power, and disdain of humanity. It will comprise solely of those such as Mitchell and Jessen …
My ONLY interest in the APA is knowing what foul compromise and evil which it is “up” to, and I thoroughly appreciate the fact that you make such odious information both available and understandable in the context of the real, human world.
I thank you, Jeff Kaye.
DW
It’s all part of the economics of cost-benefit analysis. Human values don’t matter.
BTW, something I never thought of when I learned cost-benefit analysis in school, which seems sensible enough on first principles. The hidden agenda is that CB ALWAYS favors the rich (duh), bc benefits are measured in money & the rich have more of that…
appalling
To nit pick. Psychologists are not MDs and have not claimed the Hippocratic Oath.
Also worthy of note is that the American Psychiatric (MDs) Association and the AMA have renounced torture under any banner.
That said. We do indeed live in evil times when a group claiming to be a healing profession should let itself become so corrupted. Truly the only thing like it in history was the corruption of the medical profession -MDs- under the Nazis.
It is really reassuring to know that psychologists don’t claim the Hippopotamus Oath.
I don’t pretend to understand how these hopefully few who have succumbed process it. I imagine it is by viewing themselves not as healers but as “scientists” and technicians. Not a good enough reason. Any human that has the capacity to mistreat a dependent other has a human responsibility to not abuse the situation. It is beyond disturbing that the professional organization purporting to represent all psychologists is going through such distortions to justify their actions.
Glenn Greenwald just now on MSNBC Last word on Cheney was very good on this topic.
I’d guess it just the “wow, I’m close to power” thingy.
Me & my son have had a lot of therapy (don’t ask), mostly all psychologists. I did not come away with a high opinion, though at the time the alternative was worse, i.e., no help at all.
My one abiding Q has been: Why do they need to go to school so long to learn how to say, “And how did that make you feel.” But I digress.
“Morally repellent” comes to mind and the same goes for any of the American Psychiatric (MDs) Association and the AMA member that cooperate with them.
The MDs who do subscribe to the Hippopotamus Oath, are just as involved in assessing whether the torture victims are still alive & well enough to undergo their next round of torture. Docs, part of the Mafia of the Intelligentsia, have always had a meaningful portion of the “profession” over the moral line. As I typed above, it’s part of the power thingy.
Their organizations have firmly rejected collaboration and any who might cooperate face loss of license for doing so.
How many licenses or other censures have actually been meted out in the “profession.” Ditto lawyers who collaborate, if you know.
The AMA had has several statements banning it. I will try to find the one published in JAMA a few months ago.
Psychotherapy and counselling by psychologists social workers etc has deteriorated because of no consensus body of knowledge or adequate training. Psychiatrists now rarely can afford to do psychotherapy any more and just treat by formulary. But it is as bad or worse in most areas of medicine.
I’m not innerested in “statements.” Talk is cheap. I want to know what actions they’ve actually brought.
In the U.S. In Europe, so far, not so much. But with wingnuts firmly in charge in U.k. France, Germany, soon to follow U.S. path in dismembering anything resembling humane treatment of nonrich citizens.
I don’t have that data. But at least you have to give the AMA and Am. Psychiatric Assoc. credit for standing in opposition. The Am. Pshychological Assoc. is actively promoting collaboration.
Even though neither has much standing any more. I suggest you check with your local insurance carrier.
You see no effect of the institutional differences? .
I am working on a unit on medical ethics and war for the ethics classes I am teaching at our local university. I will be using this in my course, plus anything you find to follow up. Thank you.
Since robbing banks is an effective way of acquiring funds, perhaps Judges should take that into consideration and give out sentences of community service.
Of course one could ask why one needs to go to school to stick one’s finger up someone’s “special place”???
Of course there’s more to it. So much people do NOT see. And that’s why they go to school.
Also note, that psychologists and psychiatrists are two sets of professionals with different training AND with similar training.
Psychologists, in general, do not have the big MD ego and usually tend to be more likely to treat you like an equal. IN GENERAL.
If it was me, and I was getting therapy, I would choose someone who’s being doing it for a while and looks me in the eyes, because from my experience being an MD versus not, makes no difference in this arena.
. From this
Data? Evidence?
Ooopsie. Somehow C&P didn’t work.
I meant to c&p that quote from you at 25 & ask for links & evidence. What is there that I, the customer, am not allowed to see?
Sorry TalkingStick, I call BS on this one.
eCAN is spot on.
No offense is meant to either.
As said, talk is cheap. And they are just words. I have not heard of ONE, NOT ONE, doc being disciplined. NOT ONE!!!
And there is plenty of evidence that docs are there THROUGHOUT the process of torturing. In fact the “guidelines”, aka how to torture 101, say that a doc must be present.
And not one disciplined.
BTW, if you’re in the know about how the AMA works, then you would look at their “internal affairs” cases and see few doctors, compared to those brought on charges, lose their license. A little something most people do NOT know: if you have a criminal record, next to impossible to get accepted by a med school, BUT once you become a MD, a criminal record will not cause you to lose your license. In fact check out any state’s proceedings on this matter, and you will see a lot of politics, group-protection mentality, and corruption.
If you do check out the proceedings in any state, you will be shocked by the kind of stuff, even when convicted in a court of law, that they do and STILL KEEP their license.
Ok, I’m not EXACTLY sure what you are asking.
If you are asking “What is there that I, the customer, am not allowed to see?”, then the answer is the thought process, first and foremost.
People sometimes do NOT understand it’s not cookie-cutter stuff. Now that’s true for MDs. But even more so for psych. The brain is very complex. And because of unlimited potential, it really can be very difficult to “treat” (that’s in quotes for a reason). That’s why it’s education and understanding why, limitations of said education, and when to zag instead of zig.
Do you want more? I can write a whole page full on this but I don’t want to bore yo.
The link to the statement is to “From this” below the quotation. You are really not being objective and I can understand why.
But think how I as a physician who loves a calling and knows human vulnerabilities up close and too well feels also? How I feel to see it beginning to rot away from corruption to see these reports. I do know many physicians many leaders and I would hope we would find support in holding firm — instead of attacks and conflation with an organization that supports torture.
The AMA has NO control over licensing..
The rest of your ranting is conspiratorial paranoia. It’s bad enough without that kind of garbage.
Absolutely. While AMA and American Psychiatric Assn have formal policies against members participating, there’s never been any action taken against those that did (or do). We don’t have real good numbers on the numbers of people involved. And then, there have been nurses and or “techs” too (as I reported in a couple of the stories about water torture at Guantanamo).
Lack of real action by AMA and the other psych society has allowed the APA to cynically call out their professional brethren, and the lack of such accountability, btw, I believe feeds part of the notion by APA that they can take the position they do.
The Psychiatrist association did suffer initially from their stance, in that psychiatrists were pulled from the Behavioral Science Consultation Teams (BSCTs) and replaced by psychologists. I don’t know if this still is the case however. But we do know that the BSCTs still operate, at Guantanamo (where interrogations still take place), at Bagram, etc.
I’m asking for something much simpler than you imply.
Half of what docs know is wrong (essay in NYT about 10-20 years ago), they just don’t know what half.
Long conversations with Dr. Susan Love in mid-90s, which confirmed my priors that docs don’t know very much. Conversations were in-depth about hormone replacement therapy, right around when she came out with her book on the subject and I had independently decided the same conclusion: Nuts.
On the basis of the same thought process, i.e., none on the docs who prescribed it knew anything about it.
Susan’s partner, Dr. Helen Cooksey, was an entirely diff matter. “To cut is to cure” she, a surgeon, cutesily pronounced to me. Cooksey is the typical doc, Love is the exception. Acquaintance, short-lived though it was (a couple a three years) made a big diff in confirming my hypothesis. Have seen NO evidence since to disconvince me of the conclusions I reached in the 90s.
I’m an economist who hates most of the rest of my profession bc they are so dishonest and have so many immoral “hidden” agendas. I feel NO reason to defend the assholes, and every reason to reveal them. Any resonance?
The AMA may have no control over licensing, but they must have an ethics process. Moreover, they could come out publicly for the prosecution of torture doctors. Don’t get me wrong, they’ve done a lot more than the collaborationist APA. But I know that other doctors believe the profession has fallen down on this one. Dr. Steven Miles said when he first read about the abuse at Abu Ghraib, the first question he had was, “Where were the doctors at Abu Ghraib?”
More recently, as I’ve reported earlier, a study by two doctors, published recently at PLoS, who reviewed medical records of some of the Guantanamo detainees found evidence of torture being covered up by the examining doctors. The two doctors in question, one a retired military psychiatrist, have past associations with Physicians for Human Rights. PHR ran an anti-torture campaign for some time and tried to address these issues, but over the last year they have been somewhat quiescent, at least as regards U.S. torture.
You are correct, the AMA does not, individual state boards do.
I was inaccurate. Apologies.
The rest of my “ranting” was not “conspiratorial paranoia”.
However since this conversation has already devolved into name calling and thus uselessness, I will say respectfully we can agree to disagree.
Peace.
Well I think “we” have veered off the original course of the conversation.
I say “we” because I seem to have misunderstood the original point. My bad.
It’s not your bad….the point that wants to get made in some of these shooting matches is who knows/or thinks s/he knows more than anyone else…Pick your topic. E’nuf said. I personally am quite grateful for most of the medical care I have had….Selah….
Fine. If you think that the scientific verification of what docs do is irrelevant to topic of morality, it sez a lot about the “profession.”
Yes we could do more but at least we are not institutionalizing collaboration with torture as the psychologists are. There are plenty of reasons people hate doctors. — and I have met most of them. But let’s at least be specific.
From a JAMA report
There are lots of reasons to hate doctors and I have met most of them. But let’s at least be clear about the facts
The point of a profession is that there are callings that are impossible to “scientifically” verify every judgment and action. That is why there has to be a moral ethical code internally taught and held. Having a human dependent on your judgment and capacities is the ultimate is personal responsibility — I cannot tell you how many times I have wished for someone looking over my shoulder. The abuses described in the article above were developed and ordered by the US government. It is the professional ethics that says they are wrong. — One of the findings at Nuremberg was that the individual must be held accountable to determine and refuse illegal and inhumane orders.
Yes these are ominous signs but so far we are holding steady as to the ethical guidelines.However there may be weasling I think it is important that as an institution we not succumb to accepting it as across the board acceptable for physicians. After all look at all the guidance we get from our brave leader. (sigh)
Just as well leave us to fall to the more acceptable corruption by money that is feeding the rot.
Would you explain brave leader? Do you mean from the profession? The WH? If you don’t mind….
“Fine. If you think that the scientific verification of what docs do is irrelevant to topic of morality, it sez a lot about the “profession.””
What the … ?
Did I say that?
Are you replying to someone else. Sometimes I reply to the wrong person.
No idea if this is to me.
If it’s not I apologize.
But I never said I hated doctors, for the record.
The White house.
Complete report link here.
The AMA has really only the power to make statements and affirm guidelines and ethics. I suppose they can rescind membership but the real power lies in the states. Since these MDs are government employees I really wonder what they can do except be the voice of ethics and morality. I suppose I think I know more than I do but I do know how a doctor should act.
Just a general comment. No apologies required from anyone. And mine offered to all who may be offended. I shouldn’t write on such personal things.
We’re cool.
Peace.
The American Psychological Association (APA) sounds like it has been totally corrupted by either the CIA or our bloated Department of Imperial Office. Totally vile and totally un-American. But Obama seems to be continuing the Bush-Cheney war on the Third World… Obama is currently having our CIA kidnap black Kenyans who are taken to Somalia where they are put in the new CIA underground prison. No windows, no contacts with the outside world, no charges, no defense attorneys, no habeaus corpus. Obama has turned the human rights clock back one thousand years. Sounds like torture to me… Obama has no respect for the country that his father grew up in… What is Obama trying to do? Prove how “white” he is?
Jeff Kaye, How important is the APA and what is the likelihood of Steven Reisner winning the presidency? Is there any possibility of forming a breakaway association that would have any stature if the association can’t be reformed from within?
See my #37, then consider the source. Not to worry….This was all an important, yet difficult, topic.
Thank you for the information….hard to know what to say/do in this era of OK torture and our bought & paid for leaders and judiciary that doesn’t get appointments….Just work for the way ahead, I guess.
I think Jeff Kaye’s work is the most important tool we have in the area of professional conduct.
I admit I have done little for some time but I did do work on various committees that did oversight on local professional conduct. We too often gave the doctor the benefit of the doubt but still did a fairly good job of ridding the state of the really bad scoundrels and incompetents. But this is a whole huge new ball of wax. Frankly the system is not up to dealing with it. Who would have thought the government would be the leader in corruption of medical ethics?
Glenn Greenwald had some good commentary last evening on MSNBC Last word.
Your last question really is the kicker, isn’t it? As in Who are We? Really sad and scary….Not to be glib, I used to think the biggest therapist threat was sexual misconduct….A whole different scale, isn’t it? Thanks again for the discussion.
I did a good bit of research on the Nazi doctors and how the state appropriated them for its purposes. Speaking of “euthanasia” Hitler said “the needle belongs in the hand of the doctor.” It really presents a terrifying prospect and warning for this country.
Jay Lifton is the finest historian of this sad time. We had him on FDL for a book salon not long ago.
Thanks to you too Bev.