Iraqi army soldier guards detainees (photo: James Gordon)[Updated - 1:36 PM ET]
A US State Embassy cable marked “confidential” and published by WikiLeaks reveals details on the detention of juveniles held in “Site 4″ in a Iraq Interior Ministry (MOI) detention complex. The juveniles allege sexual abuse by Iraqi interrogators, specifically that rapes were being used in the prison to induce confessions. The discovery of widespread abuse and torture, according to the diplomat who wrote the cable, is the worst since the infamous Jadriyah “Bunker” facility was discovered in 2005.
On May 30, 2006, a “joint US-Iraqi inspection” of the detention facility took place. The facility, located in central Baghdad, was found to have 1,400 detainees. They were in “two separate facilities” and “held in squalid, cramped conditions not uncommon in MOI (Ministry of Interior) Commando detention facilities.” Inspectors interviewed forty-one detainees, who had “bruising and lash-marks consistent with violent physical abuse.” And, thirty-seven juveniles, who had been “illegally detained,” were found in the facility, “many alleging sexual abuse.”
The cable sent out on June 10, 2006, reports:
A number of juvenile detainees, mostly young teenagers, alleged sexual abuse at the hands of MOI personnel — specifically, that MOI interrogators had used threats and acts of anal rape to induce confessions and had forced juveniles to fellate them during interrogations. These allegations were also raised independently with inspectors by adult detainees who claimed knowledge of juvenile rapes.
“Site 4” suffers from “severe overcrowding,” which is “characteristic of many MOI INP detention facilities.” It notes:
Most cells have insufficient space to lie down and must sit entwined, knee-to-knee. The few toilets available are overflowing and sewage spills onto the floors. Many detainees, who are allowed little or no access to fresh air suffer from lice, scabies and infections. Food supply is adequate, but running water is limited to 1-2 hours per evening.”
In addition to overcrowding and the rape of juveniles illegally detained, the inspection team uncovers through interviews a chain-and-pulley system used to torture detainees:
Of the forty-one detainees interviewed on May 30 who displayed bruising, broken bones, and lash-marks, many claimed to have been hung by handcuffs from a hook in the ceiling and beaten on the soles of their feet and their buttocks. A hook was discovered on the ceiling of an empty room at the facility; attached was a chain-and-pulley system ordinarily used for lifting vehicles. Apparent bloodspots stained the floor underneath. (NOTE: The pulley was confiscated and is now at Post. END NOTE.)
The cable indicates personnel at “Site 4” attempted to cover the abuse and torture the inspection team would find. The team was “initially refused access” to the facility. Guards were also caught on June 1 “attempting to hide four abused detainees in a guard tower” during a follow-on inspection by the multinational forces Special Police Training Team. Guards threatened detainees and told them not to talk to the Americans.
“Site 4” Commander Colonel Ali (no last name provided in the cable) and Iraq National Police (INP) Commander General Adnan Thabit reported the “’sole’ three individuals responsible for abusing detainees” were detained at the MOI “Site 1″ detention facility. However, US Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad doesn’t buy this “few bad apples” defense:
It would be difficult, if not impossible, for senior MOI INP leadership responsible for Site 4 to be unaware of the prevalence of detainee abuse at the facility. This is suggested by the large number of detainees with serious physical injuries present at Site 4, the obvious and illegal presence of 37 juveniles, and the fact that hooks and pulleys used to hang detainees from the ceiling were kept in plain sight.
Juvenile detainees in the facility were transferred from Site 4 to an MOI INP facility at Muthanna airport temporarily in June. The few officers held responsible, including Colonel Ali, were “detained but not arrested,” which the cable notes is “a not-uncommon practice.” Detainees were prepared to testify against their abusers/torturers. [Note: In April 2010, Muthanna airport was discovered to have a secret detention facility with more than 400 detainees being held there.]
Few details on “Site 4” exist. The “Site 4” inspection is mentioned in a congressional “Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for 2007.” The report finds “there were no new developments” in key 2006 cases, involving torture and abuse. “Lieutenant Colonel A,” accused of assaulting and torturing dozens of Sunnis, was in custody on behalf of the Shi’a milita at “Site 4” Baghdad Central Detention Facility in 2006, was in custody and awaiting a trial. In June 2006, following the inspection of “Site 4,” arrest warrants for “50 suspected abusers” were issued. MOI, however, only executed three of those warrants. No trials were held for the suspects.
A search of Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch (HRW) reports uncovers little to nothing on the “Site 4” facility, even though the two human rights groups have produced reports on Iraqi abuse and torture at least since 2005. Also, it does not appear much happened to those suspected of torture, even though the inspection team was apparently repulsed by what was found in the facility. Whether the “Site 4″ facility is still operating or not is hard to discern.
Impunity is typical. If one recalls how the US military coexisted with the Interior Ministry’s Wolf Brigade, a death squad known to have tortured Iraqis, especially Sunnis, the failure of multinational forces to do anything about those likely involved in torture isn’t surprising. A military order, Frago 242, uncovered in the Iraq War Logs published by WikiLeaks shows the military operated under an order not to fully investigate torture or abuse at the hands of Iraqi interrogators. In fact, the military would threaten detainees with the possibility that they might be transferred and subjected to torture by the Wolf Brigade if they didn’t cooperate or confess during interrogations. It is likely the US military has played off Iraqi fears by promising Iraqis they would be detained in US detention facilities instead of Iraqi detention facilities if they did what was asked of them.
Finally, this is how US ambassador Khalilzad sums up the inspection of the facility:
MOI guards and interrogators at Site 4 appear to have engaged in illegal and violent acts openly and with impunity. The frank admissions of MOI personnel that individual detainees merit physical abuse and the lackadaisical efforts to conceal that abuse support the contention — raised by multiple Iraqi interlocutors — that today’s INP are not only incapable of conducting detention operations to acceptable standards, but are unwilling to do so.
The brutality of Iraqi police, which the US and coalition forces are in charge of training, has been clearly documented and the State Department and US military is fully aware of the appalling abuse and torture that is systemic in Iraqi detention facilities. Nothing happens.
The shock is ironic. The US operates Guantanamo, Bagram and various secret prison facilities where detainees are rendered to for interrogations that often involve abuse and torture. The US transformed the Abu Ghraib prison operated by Saddam Hussein into a facility that would become a symbol of US torture and abuse of detainees.
The US has rendered detainees to countries known to commit torture, such as Egypt, or transferred detainees into the custody of forces such as the Iraqi or Afghan police that are known to commit brutality and violence against detainees. The US has had other governments run secret prisons where US agents can come in and interrogate people but not have to take responsibility for the horrors going on in the facility (e.g. Somalia).
With that in mind, it is not shocking that prisons are able to operate where interrogators subject teenagers to anal rape to induce confessions or force juveniles to give them fellatio. The Interior Ministry will not punish the swine who commit such atrocities, therefore, the world can expect to read more accounts of horrific abuse of this nature.



74 Comments

Headline correction: Iraqi Interrogators Rape Juveniles CUZ IT TURNS THEM ON AND CUZ THEY CAN!
This is a very confusing read. It appears to be a US team that uncovered the abuse, and the US ambassador who wrote it up, including complaints about impunity? Is that right? And the commander responsible Commander Col. Ali was arrested along with others and charged, but there were few or no trials, but who were the trying authorities? The Iraqi government, it looks like but it’s not clear from your report, but is that correct? Who originally detained the juveniles? Were they detained by the U.S. and handed over, or were they detained originally by the Ministry Of the Interior?
And what is the meaning of your para about HRW and AI? That they were unaware, or are you saying they were aware and somehow are complicit in the impunity?
Please explain. I don’t see how the FRAGO order is relevant unless there was a rendering, so was there a rendering, and I still don’t see how a complete report wasn’t written if the ambassador is complaining about impunity and writing a complete report. A complete report isn’t the same as a public report.
I’m not passing judgment I’m just asking for your assessment of facts. I realize that what you have to go on is a Wikileaked cable, only.
What is done in the name of religion never ceases to appall.
But when you scratch the surface, in every case it comes down to the lust for power, wealth and control.
Ah, nothing says “Operation Iraqi Freedom” quite like raping juvenile prisoners.
Nonsense, Kevin; now that we’ve removed Saddam, Iraq is a paradise for all Iraqis. (And will soon be one for Wall Street and the Fortune 500…)
Any “news” to the contrary is just socialist propoganda.
Ya beat me to it. The more powerless the group in question, the more they are mistreated.
Ok, stupid question, but when you say ‘cable’ are you meaning a telegram or are these emails or even written letters?
That’s unfortunate. I’m here to clarify.
The Ministry of Interior was encouraged to launch a criminal investigation. MOI would have been the ones to carry out trials and sentencing of those responsible.
I believe Iraqi police detained them. That is the only way the inspection team could be as outraged as they appeared to be.
I mention HRW and AI to provide context. There are facilities that have garnered attention for the torture and abuse that goes on in the facilities. There are “secret” facilities that have been found. This facility doesn’t from the cable appear to be secret, but further reporting is necessary to figure out if this is a facility that has not been inspected or scrutinized by human rights groups.
Actually, the FRAGO order is relevant to the extent that it provides cover for the US military to ignore reports of detainee abuse by Iraqi interrogators. So, that section is context.
Yes, I am working off of a cable I found that I think merits the same amount of attention as the cable on the 2006 MNF raid or Ishaqi Massacre in Iraq garnered.
rape during war is not rape but collateral damage.
Here’s a good explainer from Slate.com — “it’s kind of like a group email.”
Rape, pillage, torture and slavery are the tools of global empire which happens to be a corporate-operated one. We know the US side of the oligarchy that runs the empire benefits mostly 400 people (Mar. 7, 2011). I haven’t seen Warren Buffett, Bill Gates or David Koch take a public stand against any of these things. Of course it will take some activists (preferably on camera) getting in their faces and asking them if they do. If or how they respond, is their answer. Otherwise, seems like they are just A-OK with it.
Izziss a great country or what?
I like this Qatari’s reaction to the cable: “God curse them.”
And, unfortunately, our inability to force our government to relinquish those tools and shut off the war machine makes each of us appear equally complicit.
This is a little off topic but not really. Kevin, maybe you could do a piece on Libya and our wonderful “humanitarian mission” there. You know, the “good guys” that we are supporting there like the tribes with ties to Al Queda:
Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links
Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al- Qaeda links Abdel-Hakim al-Hasidi, the Libyan rebel leader, has said jihadists who fought against allied troops in Iraq …
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/...
And the lynching of black Africans by the people we support there:
Libyan rebel ethnic cleansing and lynching of black people …
Further specific evidence has emerged that there is a strong racist element within the rebel forces, including at command level, and it is the stated intention of these …
humanrightsinvestigations.org/2011/07/07/libya-ethnic… – Cached
I’d do it but I believe you have a lot more expertise in this area than I by a long shot. I’m really upset over this. It’s effing unbelievable but apparently true.
Barry! WTF?
In any culture, protection of the children is paramount. I cannot think of any act more certain to provoke the deepest rage and hatred than one of violence to a child.
IMO the operative word is “unwillingness.”
I’ve actually done coverage of this already. I did it before I joined FDL as an official blogger. It would be valuable to update and expand but for now I provide links:
Former Guantanamo Detainee Denies Islamic Emirate Has Been Set Up in Libya
AND
Cables: The Vulnerability of Black African Migrant Workers in Libya
Thanks Kevin. Keep up the good work. I am a big fan of yours!
A fact to point out (that I was not sure how to work into my post) is that the cable is 1 of 5 cables with the tag “DOJ” for the Justice Department. The ambassador wanted the Justice Department to be aware.
Thank you for reading.
I don’t disagree. My vote for Osterity was an attempt to do it, and we all know how well that worked out. But I have done precious little else, I’m afraid.
As someone who built most of whatever small reputation I had as a blogger through my analysis of the Iraq occupation while the war/insurgency was at its peak, I’d suggest that efforts to blame the U.S. for the MOI torture squads is somewhat overblown.
Rather than give a dry, analytical explanation, for the moment I’ll just put it this way… Kevin says:
What, Kevin, would you suggest the State Dept. and U.S. military should do? I forget the exact number, but IIRC at one point the U.S. had up to 200,000 troops in Iraq, and as events demonstrated, the extent of our control of Iraq was essentially limited to the ground an American soldier was standing on, for only as long as he was actually standing on it.
To exercise continuous oversight over all Iraqi police facilities — and patrol the country for hidden/unofficial jails & torture chambers — would probably require re-occupying Iraq with between 500,000 to 1 million troops, at minimum. Is that what you’re recommending, Kevin?
This thread brough to mind Admiral(MY God is Bigger than your God) Jerry Boykin. Remember him?
re: Jerry Boykin:
The Fellowship,(C Street Group), also made inroads within the U.S. military, particularly the officers’ ranks. Through an entity known as the Officers Christian Fellowship (OCF), the Fellowship tapped officers in all the services and future officers in the service academies to become “ambassadors for Christ in uniform.” The motto of the OCF is “Pray, Discover, Obey.” The Christian Military Fellowship served as the OCF’s counterpart among the enlisted ranks.
Eventually, the Fellowship would count some of the military’s top leaders among its members. They include… Iran-contra figure Marine Lt. Col. Oliver North, and, perhaps even more controversial than North, Army Lt. Gen. William “Jerry” Boykin, the military head of Defense Secretary Rumsfeld’s intelligence branch.
In 2003, Boykin, in a speech to the First Baptist Church in Daytona Beach, Florida, referred to the United States as a “Christian nation” and, that in reference to a Somali warlord, he stated, “ I knew that my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol.”
The reverberations of Boykin’s comments were felt around the world. But his allies and Fellowship compatriots, Rumsfeld, Myers, Kansas Representative Todd Tiahrt, and most important, George W. Bush, refused to condemn him. Calls for Boykin’s reassignment went unheeded.
Soon afterwards, Boykin’s Pentagon intelligence group was discovered to have been involved with the torture and sexual molestation of prisoners in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The sexual molestation of prisoners included male and female teens being held in Iraq.
“Christian Mafia”, Insider Magazine
It was an Iraqi violation all the way through then. It’s a bit hard to pin on some FRAGO-like arrangement unless there’s a real reason the U.S. is involved. It sounds as if the State Department may have actually complained.
My guess is that this facility, at least the violations at it, were hidden from inspectors — they attempted to hide them from the joint inspection. How successful they’ve been with other groups we don’t know. If it’s a domestic jail, there’s a possibility that it doesn’t get inspections by the ICRC, e.g. which visits detainees related to conflict. The human rights groups demand access when they think something is happening.
EXPOSÉ: THE “CHRISTIAN” MAFIA insider-magazine.org/christianmafia.htm -
EXPOSÉ: THE “CHRISTIAN” MAFIA. Where Those Who Now Run the U.S. Government Came From and Where They Are Taking Us …
Hidden/unofficial jails and McTorture chambers are all independently owner operated. Franchise opportunities are available where you live.
How about stopping US sponsored terrorism and occupations for starters? I know, no bullseye there.
Second, can we stop training people to do what we do, you know, oppress and kill human beings under the guise of American freedom style fascism?
Third, 500,000 or 1 million troops would not do any good there. All that would do is enable more of what we went there to do in the first place.
I am often ignorant, I’ll do what I can to correct that, but to suggest that soldiers are there has anything to do with justice, policing, or protecting the people of the countries we are occupying seems more than a lil naive, more like borderline propaganda-istic. It’s the whole framing I object to even if not I misunderstood your point.
The US government has made torture and sexual abuse tools of the trade, made them not just acceptable again but quite fashionable.
How overblown is the commentary compared to the –cking behavior we endorsed and trained these people to do, as if some weren’t want to do it already.
You are probably right though, their torture squads aren’t necessarily all under the command of our torture squads, nor were they all directly trained by an American contractor or other personnel, and of course, torture franchises now available.
Thank you for this piece. I think some are missing the fairly obvious point that during this time period and thereafter the US military was handing off detainees (including a US citizen IIRC whose case went to the Fed Courts here with the DOJ maintaining that the Iraqi detention and justice system were in good operational status and there were no risks of abuse in handing over the US citizen) to Iraqi forces. As a matter of fact, the US rounded up, without rhyme or reason, numbers reaching into 5 figures and over the 2006-2011 time frame has had to do something with their detainees.
This is one reason, supposedly, that Obama has opted for assassination raids and drone killings – to avoid the detention issues with respect to the innocent or the guilty. In any event, the US had an obligation with respect to its detainees to not hand them over to an appartus that would engage in abuse. Instead, it helped cover up the abuse to make the transfers go more smoothly. The US military, under international norms, as an de facto occpational force had the duty to not just investigate, but intervene to stop the abuse. This is an obligation that the US Executive branch has overruled – so that the miitary has no been required to act under international norms on the duty to intervene to stop abuse front. I still remember Rumsfeld’s response to the input from that the the miliary had an obligation to intervene – - and it never came up again as an obligation.
The other aspect is that this knowledge is and has been relevant to several lawsuits that I can think of that were filed here in the US, including a juvenile in US custody who alledged that the US brought an “interrogator” who was allowed to rape the juvenile, and to the many claims that the US was affirmatively utilizing the known situation of rape and abuse to threaten detainees into making false confessions by threatening to turn them over the rape/torure facilities. That is, btw, (again, under norms and accepted treaty and various code language definitions) an act of torture in and of itself – the threat of rape.
I understand that in the context of a short piece for a blog that is based on many years of accumulated facts, all the threads may not tie up in one ribbon in this piece, but I found it very interesting, useful and a good effort in a short space. Thank you.
“What, Kevin, would you suggest the State Dept. and U.S. military should do?” Should have done – would have been to not turn over detainees. Should have done – would have been to be honest with the US courts examining the habeas and injunction efforts on behalf of someone being turned over by the US to those institutions about the likelihood for rape and abuse and eliciting of false confessions. Should have done – would have been to not use threats of turning over to rapists as an interrogation tactic. Should have done – followed through on the international norm that Pace “slip of the tongue” stated, i.e., to intervene to stop torture.
Should do now? Fess up. Confess that they sat on information about the abuses so that it would be easier to hand off detainees wrongfully detained. Confess that they used threats to hand off for rape, in violation of anti-torture laws and treaties everywhere, and that they did this to elicit confessions (often false). Etc. It’s been a long “war” with a lot of opportunities for the military and the state dept to do things – it’s not fair to just say, without any context, “what would you suggest they do?”
imo, fwiw
Of all the things I have read lately, this is the most disturbing. When you rip a young man or woman’s life apart this way it ruins one for life. Your psyche is forever twisted.
If any of you has had your childhood stolen and destroyed you would not be so cynical as to call it collateral damage. It is murder, a death one carries where you are still walking.
I mean no attack on you. And I won’t go into the personal but I know what this shit does, and they, whoever they is, should have their balls cut off.
forgive my rudeness it is informed by life.
Thanks for the post.
Sad but utterly unsurprising “news.” I believe someone up above commented that rape, plunder & pillaging are all part of Imperialism and War, Inc.
What part of this doesn’t the US public get?? Why 100% bc US serfs are fed pablum (at best) and bald-faced lies (at worst) by the propoganda that passes for so-called “main stream media.”
Why would anyone these days believe that Team USA would behave any differently. Do US citizens really give one crap?? Doubt it. US citizens were made to endorse, nay cheer for, torture & other extremist measures (via, for one example, Fox’s execrable “24″ tv show). Does anyone seriously think that US citizens will give a rat’s patoot about kids being raped in the name of FREEDUMB for US serfs??
Sad to say, this is who we, as “proud ‘Murkins” are. We can stand around pledging allegiance & shedding tears about 911, whilst singing the Nat’l anthem… but really: this is where the rubber meets the road.
I think mswinkle was cynically writing down how our Overlords view this sick depravity. I don’t wish to put words in anyone’s mouth, but I don’t think that was the personal viewpoint of that particular commenter. However, make no mistake, that’s how our “leaders” view it. Welcome to Team USA.
You should feel horrified, but these kinds of acts have been carried on for decades in YOUR name (and you’ve paid for it with your taxes). Welcome to reality. How do you wish to combat this?
They were carried on much closer to home my friend. I got skin in this twisted fucking game.
mswinkle certainly is not my enemy she just struck a nerve..I apologize.
I think we are not missing anything. This is a cable about an Iraqi facility that was inspected by a joint US-Iraqi team. The US then sent a report through the State Department complaining about abuse by Iraqi jailers of prisoners that had been apprehended by Iraqis. The commander of the prison and others were subsequently charged, but justice was not served on them by Iraqi Courts. At that point it becomes a complaint about impunity.
There was no rendering or refoulement involved or alleged in any of the available information, so far. So far, there is no grounds for any such accusation, so none should be made.
If you would like to make the accusation that the US should have made a more public accusation and pursued a more aggressive accusation of impunity, by all means make it. But there is no evidence for an accusation of US involvement in rendition, refoulement, torture, or sexual assault on the information present.
I’m not making that statement because I take any of the crimes alleged lightly whatsoever. The crime of rape is indeed a serious crime. But that has no bearing on whether there is US involvement. At present, there is no evidence of it on the facts, which are precisely this cable leaked by Wikileaks.
Be careful about wanting a wider inquiry until the identities of everyone involved have been very carefully protected, too. It wasn’t that long ago, right here in the US, which was your basis for comparison of criminal charges, that it was illegal to be a victim in an anal rape case in some states — until Lawrence v. Texas changed that.
Just mentioning that because some people believe that its impossible to do damage with the unredacted Wikileaks cables unless you expose a spy or something.
Thank you! I was pretty sure that we werent still using telegrams.
This was a good post, it affected me deeply. I can only hope that in the personal I hold on to my humanity in the face of this degradation and dehumanizing of culture. This is the end game whether you want to hear it or not.
In a spiritual sense those who feed on us like vultures feasting on dead flesh will not make the cut.
So I say don’t lose yours and we will walk together from the yin to the yang. What I have to say has nothing to do with religion.
I recently wrote something, this is a part.
The derivatives of this paean triumvirate, christo-judaic-islamic faith all fight forevermore…Is that god’s work, same god, three enemies? of each other?…don’t buy it. This war god jehovah is a phony construct of something no one sees.
What I say in commenting might seem OT but it is hardly that. What this post is about is the transgression of our humanity. And, sorry to say, it was personal. But hey, the other side of it is a lesson and our pain gives birth to beauty.
It is not being done in the name of religion. The US military and mercenaries came into Iraq and get the ball rolling, no sign that the majority religion of the USA (Christianity) was used as a motivation or excuse for these behaviors.
The first reports of juveniles (boys) being raped was in 2003 in Abu Ghraib prison under US direction. There are reportedly videos of these events, which were shown to members of the US Congress (and used with the prisoners too). Our congress critters did NOTHING TO STOP THIS and made sure the videos did not get out. Obama upheld that lack of access to what the US military and mercenaries are up to in Iraq and elsewhere.
So, to expect the US to clean up Iraqi torture and rape would be expecting too much, and would show the US as total hypocrites.
I’m not trying to pin it on the US. I actually have no evidence in this scenario to make that allegation. But, I do think it is important to discuss any case of abuse and torture by Iraqi authorities with Frago 242 in mind because it was a way for US forces to get away with not investigating abuse and torture by Iraqi forces.
Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful comment.
This line is important:
Not sure if there is evidence to support this but to me it does not seem like unfounded speculation.
It was total bullshit. Gaddafi was no monster. I think if you do a search you will find this to be true.
It is indeed butchery…war endless war. It is feeding time.
We hold on to our humanity by not bowing to fear when others need us to bear witness. When people are being victimized like the juveniles and adults in this prison were, we have to document. We have to discuss. We have to show our outrage because the reaction keeps us human. If we allow ourselves to get used to it all, if we let desensitization take over our being, we are letting the powers that be get away with complicity, ignorance, negligence or, worse, brutality.
The silence we display makes impunity much easier for the powerful to justify. When people are outraged and show it, then there is much more of a likelihood that they have to answer for the part they played.
Great reporting, Kevin. The U.S. govt hid this information b/c it would weaken support for their war, and the government they were representing as a “democratic” improvement on Saddam Hussein.
Now connect the dots a bit further, and you will see that the current head of the CIA, former General David Petraeus, was in fact in charge of training those police commandos who failed to report or stop the rapes and abuse, and he and other US advisors (like Petraeus assistant James Steele) were in charge of organizing the shock squads, like the Wolf Brigade. WHY DID CONGRESS APPROVE PETRAEUS UNANIMOUSLY? Why has there been no greater outcry against the Frago 242 policy? We know why: because the legitimacy of the current American regime and its officialdom, and the electoral fortunes of the Democratic Party are more important than raped children. That’s the fucking world we live in.
“but to suggest that soldiers are there has anything to do with justice, policing, or protecting the people of the countries we are occupying seems more than a lil naive, more like borderline propaganda-istic.”
I think you nailed it, except I would substitute “delusional denial and militant ignorance” for “borderline propaganda-istic”.
Amazing how many American people suffer from this, even on FDL. Juan Cole, for example, expresses the belief that sending bombs to Libya (or troops to Iraq) will somehow help those people being bombed or occupied. I am guessing that he (like a lot of Americans) will not overcome this militant ignorance unless and until there are foreign troops on their front porch.
It may be ignorance. It may be willful naivete.
There is something to be said about protracted movements being able to face down the brutality and come out on the other side having won their liberation without help from the outside. What is happening in Syria is very hard to watch. But, I would not mind suggesting the Syrians, if they can force Assad out, will be a better country than Libya, where it is likely a NATO occupation will plague Libyan society for years to come.
They raped and sodomized people. This is directly attributable to us. I find your comment to be somewhat smarmy.
I am not silent and I am not afraid. And if I was afraid my dysfunctional hatred of authority would overcome it. I have seen the monsters, they are a cowardly lot.
What,…. would you suggest the State Dept. and U.S. military should do?
Here’s my opinion on that:
RELEASE ALL THE PHOTOS AND VIDEOS TAPES TAKEN BY US TROOPS AND US MERCENARIES IN IRAQ OVER THE YEARS.
PUT THEM ON CABLE TV NEWS FOR AT LEAST TWO WEEKS.
START CLEANING THE US UP BUT HOLDING EVERYONE ASSOCIATED WITH THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOR ACCOUNTABLE, STARTING FROM THE TOP DOWN. HOLD TRIALS, AND SENT THEM TO PRISON FOR AT LEAST A DECADE.
PAY RESTITUTION TO THE VICTIMS AND MAKE A VERY PUBLIC APOLOGY (REPEAT THIS FOR EACH AND EVERY VICTIM WE CAN FIND.)
“BUT” should be “BY”
“America’s detention policy debacle turns ten”
Righteous I wish there were more of you.
Good beginning of a platform for an organized effort to combat government secrecy.
Damn right. And am I correct, Mary, that this obligation is also made legal under the UN Convention Against Torture, to which the US is a signatory. I don’t believe the conditions under which it was ratified in Congress included any limitation on the following:
I’d say that Frago 242 and its subsequent iterations would cover any forces turning over prisoners to another State entity known to torture. This is true in Afghanistan also. My question is, in reference to Article 2, was occupied Iraq considered to be under U.S. jurisdiction at the time of the torture? I’d think yes.
Maddy, I am a survivor too. I can’t believe some of the
military jingoism right here @ FDL. “My country right or wrong…” and, “I see nothing, I hear nothing…” Apparently, some here have no clue where that attitude comes from: NAZIS!
” It wasn’t that long ago, right here in the US, which was your basis for comparison of criminal charges, that it was illegal to be a victim in an anal rape case in some states — until Lawrence v. Texas changed that. ” Aside from not knowing what you are talking about when you say, “which was your basis for comparison of criminal charges” (my basis? Kevin’s, basis vis a vis what statement? this is really unclear to the point where I can’t respond) –
your statement is flat and completely wrong. It was not “illigal” to be a victim of anal rape in any State. It was illegal to give consent to anal sex several states. Even in those states, if you were raped, it was never “illegal” to be the rape victim.
WHen the cable was sent, the US had an obligation to do more than make a complaint – it had the obligation to intervene. That’s what you are missing. You’re in good company – it’s what Donald Rumsfeld was missing as well in his press conf with Peter Pace when he stated that the only US obligation, if we came across inhumane treatment by Iraqi officials, was to report such treatment and Pace interjected what was the ACTUAL duty, under accepted norms for the US in its position as basically an occupation army – – that there was an absolute duty to intervene, not just to investgate and report.
See, e.g.,
http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=1492
Also, once the US knew of such situations (knowledge being the issue – not whether the originally discovered victims were US renderees or turnovers or not), it had a duty to its detainees to make sure that such situations were under control before the US turned those detainees over.
When you say, “There was no rendering or refoulement involved or alleged in any of the available information, so far. So far, there is no grounds for any such accusation, so none should be made.” it’s not clear what you mean, but I am assuming you mean that there was no rendition (which isn’t the proper term for the US military turnover as occupiers to domestic institutions, but I think that’s what you mean?)regarding the specific jailed juveniles at Site 4.
But that’s not the only issue by any means, because the “record” is replete with the turnover by the US of many many many detainees to the Iraqi institutions. Thousands were detained by the US and turned over to Iraqi institutions. They were turned over while the US knew – as disclosed by the cable – that the institution were replete with torture and abuse. This would also have been a violation of our obligations if we had not so well covered up the institutional torture. It would have jammed things up a bit, though, over the Iraqi draw down. Because we had also signed off on agreements to pull out and close down our many concentrated population detention facilities in Iraq, and if you can’t hand off to the domestic institution because of torture, you have to release unless you have military charges you can press. Easier for the US to turn over the thousands of detainees to Iraqi institutions and let them sort it out than to take responsiblity for the incorrect detentions, which would have happened if the US had admitted that it could not under international law and standards hand off its detainees to Iraqi institutions because of torture and rape issues at those facilities.
So it’s not that, “the US should have made a more public accusation and pursued a more aggressive accusation of impunity” but rather that a) the US had a duty to intervene to prevent the detainees from being subject to torture and b) the US had a duty to not hand over other detainees to domestic institutions that were rife with torture – which WAS done with resepct to thousands of detainees the US handed over, and c) the US had a duty in the domestic lawsuits brought, where detainees who were going to be handed over to the Iraqi institutions were arguing that they would be subject to torture, to be forthcoming with the US courts examining those allegations.
In addition, to the extent that, with the knowledge the cables indicate the US had, the US allowed its military to engage in “threats” to hand over detainees to domestic institutions where the implication or direct threat was that they would be tortured and raped, that is in violation of torture statues and treaties as a threat of rape.
Again, all fwiw.
@53 – yes and no. There’s an argument that a “territory under its jurisdiction” from a civil law standpoint might not include Iraq – and the military rules of occupation (which is not exactly the same as civilian jurisdiction) would apply. But basically you should have one or the other – so if you argue that we weren’t occupation, then we had to have had some other kind of “jurisdiction” to allow for the massive detention facilities we established for the victims of in-home raids that were not battlefield detentions.
Just mentioning that because some people believe that its impossible to do damage with the unredacted Wikileaks cables unless you expose a spy or something.
Yes Sir, Mam, I don’t know your gender, I am a man/male. Nazi would be one thing. I won’t go into what I beleive but one thing..Zionists, rabbi temple dogs, catholic pederasts..okay a few things,
I know this is OT but it is germaine to the topic. Which is our humanity
That our world has become so denigrated, dehumanized is directly attributable to zionists and worse. Don’t play the race card with me either, it is bullshit in this house.
I can name other atrocities as great that are not continually beaten into your skull. Here is one..7 million dead ukraines at the hands of the russians. In one year. 1932-33
http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/stalin.htm
I’m not playing any race card. I am second generation Slovak/Californian. I am Slavic which, as you know, is an Indo/European term for “slave.” We have been slaves as long as, and right along side black Africans. We were enslaved by the Romans, Charlamagne, North Africans, the Byzantine Empire, and the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Our “civil war” was known as WWI & WWII. As you also know, we don’t call it that because it was pretty much non-stop all the way through, from “low grade” “ethnic conflict” to out right total war. I have relatives who
died on Normandy Beach fighting for the US and for the Slovak Partisans against the Nazis. I know a thing or two about slavery, oppression, resistance, et. al. directly from my kin who were there. And, it pisses me off
no end when people try to bring that shit over here.
No offense to you and no offense taken. We are on the same page, including the High Cabal you refer to.
Really? Do you know of any male who would have walked up to a cop in Georgia after Bowers v. Hardwick and reported anal rape? Do you know anything about males reporting rape at all? Let’s make it really clear and say non-prison rape. Do they do it in the same numbers as females? Do they do it in large numbers in states and nations in which male homosexuality is a crime? Do females report rape in countries where they can die for adultery?
Maybe you should think before you lecture males on the subject.
All I was trying to do was tell you you should be very, very careful before you call for a wider investigation of this particular crime that the innocent are extremely well protected or you will punish the wrong people.
As for the rest of your argument, in 2006, Iraq had a government, such as it was, not a provisional occupational government. So you need more evidence, like I said before.
Sorry for the add, but my iPod couldn’t access the edit. We lost sixty million in the Great War, more than fifty
percent civilian. Most were killed in their own yards, in slave labor camps or death camps. I agree with your analysis regarding the human spirit.
Originally, many Ukranians fought for the Nazis until they experienced the racial rage of the SS.
Excuse me? that has nothing to do with what I said, not even close. Don’t misdirect.
Turning prisoners over to another government “where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture” is against the law of the land. It is a serious crime. I suppose you would support the investigation and prosecution of such criminals?
Wasn’t trying to misdirect. Have you ever been there? Or do you know every thing by something you just Googeled? Would you care to converse with my neighbor who is from the Ukraine? I was trying to agree with but alas you are just another opinionated prick who doesn’t know jack!
Of course. That’s called refoulement. But there is zero evidence that refoulement is what has happened here. Instead, what has happened is that Iraqis arrested juveniles, and then subjected them to torture including a sexual crime that must be handled in a sensitive manner. The US complained, and the prosecution in Iraqi courts of those responsible appears to have been incomplete.
Use your training, Jeff. You know very well why it is that Article 6 of the Torture Convention wants the perpetrators jailed first before the call goes out for victims to be brought forward to allege and testify. It’s because until the victims of some crimes are totally secure from harm, it is just plain wrong to deal with the crime in a public forum.
There’s of course the possibility that the US dropped it, and maybe they did. There’s also the possibility that the reason there’s no publicity about it is because the rest of the case is in camera, or the victims have been put into protection. Do you suppose they would last long otherwise? I can name several states of the Union where they wouldn’t even nowadays, not without fights and possibly being left for dead in some crowds.
People over on UT all suppose that the only people who will suffer from unredacted cables are informants and agents. Think hard, Jeff. Who else needs confidentiality? You are a psychologist who deals with torture victims. You know of none of them who need their identities protected? Have you ever dealt with male rape? Do you know of absolutely no reason why a juvenile male who’s been raped might need to have his case file kept confidential?
What crime is it when you blow confidentiality and he gets killed?
No it is not at all confusing – just another example as if we needed any more that the US attitude on torture has come back to haunt it – of course it appears that those who are supposed to be in control of a situation they created by sanctioning torture have now completely lost it. But then they are only ‘ragheads’ who don’t matter diddly squat. Thanks Bush and cheney (no he doesn’t deserve a capital C). These criminals must pay for their crimes in a Court of Law – International Criminal Court would be good so all their crimes can be seen and exposed by Wikileaks as no one else will report them I warrant.
This is not ”in the name of religion”. Because it also takes place at Guantanamo bay, in all Jewish prisons, in Somalia, as well as in many other american detention centres.
This is not ”in the name of religion”. Because it also takes place at Guantanamo bay, in all Jewish prisons, in Somalia, as well as in many other american detention centres.
There’s a separate issue that I tried to raise above, but doesn’t seem to be getting across. Jeff Kaye says:
But these are individuals detained by the U.S. in Iraq. As part of the drawdown of American troops there, we handed over the last U.S.-run detention centers to Iraqi control last year.
Jeff and Kevin, do you think the U.S. should have done this? Or should we have gone on maintaining independent jails indefinitely — in short, continuing the occupation?
Swopa, as for the handover last year: If the U.S. was in possession of knowledge that the prisoners handed over would be tortured, it had an obligation under international law not to hand them over, end of story. To do so is illegal refoulement, and is a war crime. No excuses, ifs, ands, or buts, it’s a violation of the Geneva Conventions.
So the answer is no. If they knew they’d be tortured, then they should not have handed them over. They either maintain jails, set them free, or arrange for their detention otherwise. If they can, they can arrange that the torture stops as well, together with monitoring to make sure that it happens. Those are the only options. Refoulement is illegal, and should be.
This is a nice binary you set up: either you’re for turning detention centers over to Iraqis and hoping detainees are not tortured or you’re for the US running detention centers and maintaining an occupation. I don’t think anyone has to be for either.
Of course, the detention centers should be controlled by Iraqis. Better, instead of transferring control, the US should close down all detention facilities. In any case, what I wrote about happened way before this handing over of control.
Also, the fact of the matter is that no authority should be allowed to torture. Given the fact that the US has played a role in human rights vetting and working to train many who are now in police or security forces involved in the detention of Iraqis, the US is responsible for torture that takes place. It has the authority to condemn what is happening and take the lead and the US should.
Condemning torture doesn’t mean the US occupation has to continue.
This statement is not true. It is responsible when it is responsible. It is responsible if it has command responsibility, actual responsibility, or has refouled prisoners. If the people it has trained are acting within their training and that training is to torture, then it would carry some responsibility. But not if they act contrary to it.
No, per the Leahy Amendment, this is how it works. Any time the US provides assistance or aid to foreign security forces, it has to vet individuals who could potentially commit human rights abuses.
Hi,
The comic strip “Addicted To War” shows that violence and subjugation is in the genes of the White Man for the last 400 years at least…(Google for the comic strip — its heavy reading, and takes time…take it a chapter at a time….)
“Violence is the last resort of the coward.” — I. Asimov
Isaac Asimov has written that there are two-followed-by-eleven-zeroes stars in our galaxy, and two-followed-by-eleven-zeroes galaxies in our Universe…When on Earth(!) are we going to explore them??
Unless Man learns to live peacefully with himself and the World, exploring the Universe(and the Moon and Mars) is useless…
~ rrj
“Man is unique in organizing the mass murder of his own species.”