Pope Ratzinger (photo: Ammar Abd Rabbo)The Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP) and the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) filed an International Criminal Court (ICC) complaint case today that calls on the ICC to investigate and prosecute the Vatican for crimes against humanity. The complaint details what the two groups call “systematic and widespread concealing of rape and child sex crimes throughout the world.”
CCR Senior Staff Attorney Pam Spees declared “crimes against tens of thousands of victims, most of them children, are being covered up,” by high-ranking officials at the Vatican. The men involved in the coverup enjoy impunity and are “responsible for rape and other sexual violence and for the physical and psychological torture of victims around the world.”
SNAP president Barbara Blaine said victims around the globe are mobilizing. The group wants those abused to know it is “safe to speak up” and that they intend to ensure that not one more child is raped or sexually assaulted by a priest.
The 84-page complaint filed specifically charges, “Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, either knew and/or in some cases consciously disregarded information that showed subordinates were committing or about to commit such crimes.”
Highlighted in the complaint are the findings of government and inter-governmental commissions, inquiries and grand juries that have been held in Canada, Ireland and the United States and before the United Nations Committee Against Torture.
The Ryan Report, which the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse issued in 2009, was the result of a 10-year inquiry into sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests in Ireland. It chillingly shows a “climate of fear, created by pervasive, excessive and arbitrary punishment, permeated most of the institutions and all those run for boys. Children lived with the daily terror of not knowing where the next beating was coming from. It found rape and sexual violence was “endemic.”
In the case of the grand jury in Westchester County, New York, a report was put out in 2002 noting:
…the specific types of abuse varied, including instances when the abusing clergy member masturbated the child victim to climax; engaged in oral sex; fondled the victim’s penis and buttocks; forced the victim’s hand onto the offender‟s penis; and engaged in mutual masturbation to climax by force” and further that the “overwhelming evidence demonstrated that sexual abuse and/or misconduct by a member of the clergy had shattering psychological effects on the victim-child.
The religious institution, the grand jury found, did not seek to alleviate the trauma when it was discovered priests had abused children. Instead, the priests refused to report offenses to law enforcement and the trauma experienced by the victim increased.
The grand jury in Suffolk County, New York produced a report on January 17, 2003, that described cases where:
- One priest who raped and fondled 4 teenage girls was sent to psychological treatment where it was found he should not be sent back to his parish. This advice was ignored and he was returned to the parish, which was attached to a school, only to reoffend
- One priest repeatedly raped a 15 year old girl until she was 19, and started a pattern of continuous fondling and masturbation of her sister when she was 12.
- Another priest assaulted four brothers. The first was only 9 when this began, with the Priest performing oral sex on him while he was sleeping, and continued with touching and oral sodomy until the age of 16. One of the brothers committed suicide.
- One priest who was an alcoholic would supply boys with drinks and when they passed out they would awaken to him masturbating them or performing oral sodomy
In all instances outlined above, “predator priests” were moved from one parish to the next. Victims were deceived. Protecting the diocese from scandal was prioritized.
A report by the Attorney General’s office in New Hampshire uncovered a “rape fest.”
One victim described his most painful memory was of taking a road trip with the offending priest and three other boys to Indiana for four to six weeks. He described the trip as a “rape fest” – Father Aube engaged in sexual contact with one boy after the other, in the same “session.” Aube was accused of assaulting 17 victims, and was also reported as using physical pain and violence to get victims to agree to various sex acts.
A second grand jury convened in Philadelphia completed its investigation in September 2005. At least 63 different priests in the Archdiocese of Philadelphia were found to have engaged in sexual abuse of children. Hundreds of child victims were uncovered. The evidence the grand jury confirmed:
- A girl, 11 years old, was raped by her priest and became pregnant. The priest took her in for an abortion.
- A 5th-grader was molested by her priest inside the confessional booth.
- A teenage girl was groped by her priest while she lay immobilized in traction in a hospital bed. The priest stopped only when the girl was able to ring for a nurse.
- A boy was repeatedly molested in his own school auditorium, where his priest/teacher bent the boy over and rubbed his genitals against the boy until the priest ejaculated.
- A priest, no longer satisfied with mere pederasty, regularly began forcing sex on two boys at once in his bed.
- A boy woke up intoxicated in a priest‟s bed to find the Father sucking on his penis while three other priests watched and masturbated themselves
- A priest offered money to boys in exchange for sadomasochism – directing them to place him in bondage, to “break” him, to make him their “slave,” and to defecate so that he could lick excrement from them.
- A 12-year-old, who was raped and sodomized by his priest, tried to commit suicide, and remains institutionalized in a mental hospital as an adult.
- A priest told a 12-year-old boy that his mother knew of and had agreed to the priest‟s repeated rape of her son.
- A boy who told his father about the abuse his younger brother was suffering was beaten to the point of unconsciousness. “Priests don‟t do that,” said the father as he punished his son for what he thought was a vicious lie against the clergy.
The Archdiocese deliberately worked to conceal abuse. The Archdiocese “bullied, intimidate, lied to and even investigated” victims of sex crimes. One priest was moved around to new diocesan communities that “they were running out of places to send him where he would not already be known.”
Beyond the grotesque and vile examples of sex crimes contained in the complaint, how cover-ups of sexual violence have been successful is detailed. The Vatican has refused to cooperate with civil authorities, engaged in “priest-shifting,” destroyed evidence and obstructed justice, whistleblowers have been punished and cover-ups have been rewarded. A good amount of blaming the victims has happened as well.
The Philadelphia Grand Jury found Diocesan officials intimidated and retaliated against victims and witnesses who came forward with details on abuse. Officials fired a nun from her position as a religious education director after she complained about a priest “still ministering to children.” One seminarian who revealed how he was abused when he was an altar boy was “accused of homosexuality and dismissed from the diocese.”
Sovereignty Before Justice for Victims of Sex Crimes
More significantly, as the complaint makes clear, the Vatican does not think it should be “subject to laws of other governing authorities.” Priests and bishops contend they swear an oath to the Vatican itself and no other authority.
This why officials like Italian Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone have rejected applying civil laws to priests and bishops who have violated children and committed sex crimes:
In my opinion, the demand that a bishop be obligated to contact the police in order to denounce a priest who has admitted the offense of pedophilia is unfounded. Naturally civil society has the obligation to defend its citizens. But it must also respect the professional secrecy of priests, as it respects the professional secrecy of other categories, a respect that cannot be reduced simply to the inviolable seal of the confessional. If a priest cannot confide in his bishop for fear of being denounced, then it would mean that there is no more liberty of conscience.
A US State Embassy cable sent out on October 23, 2002, and published by WikiLeaks confirms this reality. The cable shows when a US conference of Catholic bishops passed what is now known as the Dallas Charter the Vatican did not fully support the Charter because it “contradicted” Canon Law and could violate “due process rights of the accused clergy.” Also, while the Holy See supported efforts to “respond firmly,” the Holy See contended a “very small number” of Church personnel had committed “misdeeds.” The Holy See also did not like how broadly “sexual abuse” was defined. Non-physical acts were included in the definition, which the Holy See considered to be “vague and imprecise and therefore difficult to interpret.”
Then-Charge d’Affaires D. Brent Hardt appears willing to advocate on behalf of the Vatican to ensure that no mechanisms are put into place that would make it difficult for the Vatican to maintain the ability to not be subject to any laws other than Church law, which obviously enables the Vatican to conceal evidence of priests that commit sex crimes:
… THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE VATICAN WANTS TO DEAL EFFECTIVELY WITH THE PROBLEM OF SEXUAL ABUSE BY CLERGY, BUT DOES NOT WANT TO DO SO AT THE COST OF DEPRIVING CLERGY OF DUE PROCESS. THE HOLY SEE DOES NOT AT THIS TIME REGARD THE U.S. BISHOPS’ EFFORT AS A MODEL FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD, WHERE IN CERTAIN COUNTRIES VOLUNTARY NORMS HAVE ALREADY BEEN AGREED WITH THE TACIT APPROVAL OF THE HOLY SEE. NEVERTHELESS, THERE IS LITTLE DOUBT THAT THE U.S. POLICY WILL BECOME A POINT OF REFERENCE FOR OTHER COUNTRIES COMING TO TERMS WITH PAST CASES OF ABUSE. FOR THIS REASON, THE HOLY SEE WANTS TO BE SURE THAT THE U.S. NORMS ARE FULLY CONSISTENT WITH CHURCH LAW AND PROVIDE A LASTING BASIS TO PROTECT MINORS FROM ABUSE WHILE ENSURING CANONICAL DUE PROCESS FOR ACCUSED CLERGY.
Another cable sent out on November 25, 2005, by Ambassador L. Francis Rooney describes a meeting between the Ambassador and Holy See Secretary of State Cardinal Angelo Sodano. He complains about “aggressive attorneys” pursuing lawsuits against the Vatican for sexual abuse and also Nazi-era gold “allegedly acquired by the Holy See.” Sodano is “confident” that “sovereign immunity” will allow the Holy See to “emerge unscathed from these suits” yet Sodano is unsettled. The State Department is urged to “respect” (which likely means intervene) and ensure the Holy See’s “sovereign power” was not challenged.
In the cables where “sex” and “abuse” are mentioned, it is rarely, if ever, suggested that the Vatican is engaged in coverups, despite reports that have been released. There are never any meetings to let the Vatican know that it should cleanse the Catholic Church of those in the enterprise, who have committed depraved acts against children. Instead, diplomats working with the Vatican appear to be the Holy See’s personal public relations assistants.
For example, a secret cable sent out on February 26, 2010 (and reported on last December) reveals the Vatican was “offended” by requests from the Murphy Commission to provide information on sex crimes. The Vatican thought the Irish government “failed to respect and protect Vatican sovereignty during the investigations.” Though US diplomat Julieta Valls Noyes acknowledges the abuse revealed is “appalling,” she ultimately concludes:
…[Vatican analysts] agree the Holy See’s handling of the Irish scandal shows the Vatican learned some important lessons from the U.S. sex abuse scandal of 2002. By acting quickly to express horror at allegations, to label the alleged acts both crimes and sins, and to call in the local leaders to discuss how to prevent recurrences, the Vatican limited – but certainly did not eliminate – the damage caused to the Church’s standing in Ireland and worldwide. Unfortunately, given the growing abuse scandal in Germany, it may need to deploy those lessons again before long.
Conclusion
The gross details on the priests and bishops of the Catholic Church, which appears to function like a criminal syndicate, are more than enough to hope the ICC takes action and finally gives the victims of sex crimes justice they deserve.
Additionally, details that have trickled out from cables released by WikiLeaks suggest the State Department may be complicit in the crimes the Vatican has covered up. To the extent that US government officials have helped protect the Vatican from prosecutions, they, too, deserve to be investigated for their role in helping the Church obstruct justice for victims of systematic and widespread crimes against humanity.




102 Comments

Heh.
When was the last time any religious authority figure anywhere was held accountable.
For the powerful, religious or non-religious, impunity is plentiful these days.
Clarification: This is an appeal to the Office of the Prosecutor to begin an investigation for criminal charges (specifically crimes against humanity) against the Pope. You should say that. You cannot bring a “case against the Vatican” in the ICC. The ICC is for filing criminal charges against individuals.
Do you know the jurisdictional basis for the investigation? I could not find evidence that the Vatican is a State Party to the Rome Statute, so that would mean that either the case must be referred by a country which is party, and in which the crimes took place (which rules out the U.S. crimes at least initially), or the Security Council would have to refer it, which it has not.
Furthermore, that country must be one which either cannot or will not prosecute on its own.
Kevin,
Could you do victims a favor and put at the top of the post that there is graphic description of rape and sexual violence contained in the post.
It was difficult to encounter the first description and I had to stop reading.
.
I was kind of shocked when I typed “priest removed” into Google and got 36,400,000 hits.
Superstition hurts.
Fixed it for you.
That the number of priests removed? Or the number of articles by people who would like to see priests removed?
Do victims a favor? I think the victims want people to read these graphic stories so that they can increase the amount of support they have for criminal investigations into Vatican high-ranking officials. It is disgusting and it should be revolting. Those who read it should be even more supportive of putting priests and bishops in jail.
Hope you don’t mind me making a slight correction here. In skimming through this execrable information, this is the only conclusion I can reach.
No kidding. Yet another clue as to why Obama has been so keen to torture Pfc Bradley Manning and go after Julian Assange… two true HEROs for letting the truth out of the bag. Sheesh.
I always forget to leave off the qualifiers.
I agree with you. It’s hard to read that stuff and very very very unpleasant on so many levels that my head spins. Yet reading it helps to bear witness to crimes wrought against defenseless children in the name of some kind of religious claptrap. The info should be published broadly, imho. Thanks for the post.
Why bother with priests & bishops. Small fry and more likely to be scapegoats, i.e., crumbs thrown to the hoi polloi to make them feel something’s being done.
I favor trying the pope & sticking his a** in jail. Let’s start at the top for a change.
Did you read the section about claims of sovereignty? The evidence shows they have used this excuse to shield officials from criminal prosecutions.
I mention Ratzinger’s role. He should be investigated for covering up crimes.
I left out a great deal. There have been a number of inquiries, each uncovering very appalling, depraved and criminal behavior by Catholic priests and bishops.
I don’t know exactly how google works, I suppose it’s the number of articles that contain the words priest and/or removed. But the first page contained articles of priests actually being removed.
Akron priest removed from duty on 1970s allegation of sex abuse …
Priest removed from parishes following report of sexual relationship …
Los Angeles priest removed for affair 40 years – Home – Yahoo
Bishop Howard Hubbard of the Albany Roman Catholic Diocese has placed three retired priests on administrative leave and removed another …
Dinwiddie priest removed from post | Richmond Times-Dispatch
Priest removed from ministry after sex allegations – News – The …
A priest who has served in parishes across Northeast Pennsylvania was removed from the ministry in February after allegations surfaced that …
Retired Episcopal priest removed amid abuse charges – Boston.com
A retired Episcopal priest from Marblehead was removed from the priesthood this month
L.A. priest removed for affair more than 40 years ago – Washington …
A Catholic priest who admitted having a sexual relationship with a high school girl more
Catholic Priest Removed From San Dimas Church « CBS Los Angeles
Catholic Priest Removed Amid Abuse Accusations – Kansas City …
You betcha.
In order to evaluate those, you would have to know what else they did to p/o their superiors. You might recall that Spitzer, Weiner had to leave gov bc of sexual shenanigans, but the real agenda was political. And you would have to know what % of abusers they are.
Quite agree with you. Although the priests and bishops, etc, should be brought down, too. But let’s go for the top dog. Ratzi the Nazi had the temerity to have that US Cardinal (forget who he is/was & can’t find quickly) sitting brazenly at his right hand during his Investiture as Pope; quite despicable and seemed to me to be clearly done as an “eff you” to his detractors. The Cardinal was involved in a lot cover-ups of child abuse by the RC priets in the USA.
PTOUI!!! Go after this nasty pedophile with impunity!
I can believe it. When I read just a smidgeon of these actions, it’s almost beyond belief what went on… and it happened world-wide. I feel like we’ve only yet seen the tip of the iceberg. If I happened to have been born into the RC faith, I would’ve denounced it a long time ago. This is simply unacceptable on so many levels….
Thanks Kevin for your thoughtful response.
A simple disclaimer for victims. That was all I was suggesting. I am a victim and I did not expect to read a graphic description and have to deal with that this AM.
Just a simple disclaimer. That’s all.
It helps victims avoid PTS. I was not asking that you censor. Just something to help some of us out there who need to know what content may be before their eyes because it is too difficult to encounter.
Thank you for your righteous, insensitive tone.
WTF are you talking about? I’m telling you the rules for starting a prosecution in the ICC. I know what I’m talking about. I’ve filed at the ICC Office of the Prosecutor before.
Just trying to answer your question presented @1 about religious authority figure anywhere being held accountable.
Convenient. Two birds with one stone. Granted himself absolution after 5 our fathers & 10 hail marys I suppose.
Pope accused of crimes against humanity by victims of sex abuse
guardian.co.uk, 13 Sep 2011
Karen McVeigh
Victims’ complaint to the international criminal court accuses Pope Benedict and three others of failing to prevent abusers
… he was Cardinal Ratzinger; and Cardinal William Lavada, head of the CDF, whose handling of previous sexual abuse cases has been criticised in the past.Megan Petersen, from Minnesota, is one of two named US victims whose cases have been included…
Just trying to use your results for evaluation instead of just C&P.
Please try to understand, he didn’t mean to hurt you. He doesn’t understand what you’re saying.
I’m sorry.
He really does mean well.
The psychological abuse of children sets them up by convincing them that priests are representative of the god and must be obeyed. Puts kids between a rock and a hard place.
I understand what you are saying. It is very upsetting to know you are a victim. I did not intend for my presentation of truth to cause you problems. But, I think in the long run victims benefit from not having a disclaimer there that might dissuade people from reading. The comfortable need to be afflicted.
Soon we will be back to the religious pointing out those non-religious that do crime – with the religious trying to instill hate of the non-religious (I thought we on the left condemned this sort of hate of the other because of actions of individuals thing).
For a while I kept track of the child abuse networks by the non-religious but I decided it was a crappy way to respond to those that hate the church and wish to tear it down. So I’ll just condemn child abuse, and condemn rape at any age, and let others pick their organizational or belief system hate targets.
I’m not disputing what you are arguing.
This post was not written out of a motivation to tear down the Catholic Church. Pretty petulant to insinuate that.
Me thinks we’re going to discover how much, if any, juice the Catholic church has with the ICC. I’m predicting that wire transfers are gonna fly…right into numbered accounts.
I thought Gonzo was investigating the sex trade or was it just cyber sex? Hilary was also against this and as head of the State Dept she like Gonzo has the tools to investigate. I wonder if America has any files?
Additionally, the nonreligious cannot cite “Canon Law” and shield pederasts from prison. They most certainly go to jail and, when released into society, can end up on sex offender registries.
Really disappointing.
I am glad that television shows have the sense to put disclaimers for aid to victims. I am thankful to have movie reviews that note such content.
The one time I did not have the benefit of reading about such content, the scene sent me back into therapy.
The point is, the afflicted do not be afflicted again.
Again, I am not suggesting that you to censor any content.
I have the same problem with regard to graphic description of torture. I read as much as I can tolerate because it just has to be put out there and I support it. I think the first couple of paragraphs in this post by Keven gives ample warning of what may follow. Since you apparently did not stop there, please protect yourself more carefully and not discrourage reporting of these crimes.
It was his job to know he was the leader of the Church’s investigation if an investigation got to Rome meaning it was serious enough that they had to consider defrocking a Priest then he knew.
Defrocking a Priest is like the Pope giving a divorce once a Priest always a Priest you have to do something real bad the Pope takes notice bad to get defrocked and sex with kids qualifies.
I don’t think a Bishop can do it. Who helps the Pope make that decision that would have been the current Pope in his old job.
This is likely to make you more upset but for people following the thread —
The post is about “Vatican sex crimes.” Any person who has been subjected to horrific sexual violence should probably have been able to detect as they began to read the article that the author was going to mention the truth of what happened–the appalling, grotesque and revolting details of what priests and bishops have done to people like yourself.
There are victims who would read this without a disclaimer and react like you did. There are also victims, I suspect, who would read this without asking for a disclaimer because they have taught themselves that it is important for specific atrocious stories to be shared in public.
I know you do not want me to censor content. But, what did you expect to get from this post? Why did you think there would not be specific details that might lead you to experience some form of PTS?
If you want the Pope to talk threaten his tax exempt status in America and Germany we are the church’s money pots the rest of the churches either barely break even or get charity from the church with funds raised in America or Germany.
Mention the banking crisis both America and Germany need funds right now. The Pope is big on history Church lands were seized in the past.
There is nothing the Pope cares about more than money threaten what he loves and you can get him to do anything.
American priests swear an oath of allegiance to the Vatican? How does this square with their citizenship? (Are they a fifth column?) In any case, they’re still subject to American law. (Or whatever laws are being enforced now.)
Love the push for a formal investigation of the Holy See. Holy? Good grief. Crush the infamous thing!
(One last question: are parochial schools more or less likely than public or private schools for these crimes to happen?)
I expect the Pope to react to this by attacking Gays and calling them child molesters and timing the attacks for the election in November and again for the Presidential election.
The church is a top down organization they assume all action in other countries comes also from the top. So they will try and change the top.
Yes they obey the Pope’s word and the Bishops etc on down a Bishop for example can command a priest to well be isolated from people and never be near kids again. I Bishop could move a priest far away from kids maybe a Monastery.
Only the Pope can take away his Priesthood.
Its funny Lefty Priests who attack the Pope get threatened with not being Priests anymore in a second or moved. but Child Molesters are returned to their churches .
This sets up a clear pattern of behavior.
The complaint indicates in many instances American priests were playing games with the justice system, probably cause the Vatican wanted them to play such games. They obstructed justice. Evidence was destroyed. They lied. They did this because they didn’t think US law applied to them. They find they are accountable to Canon Law or God’s Law and that is it.
Not if they get out of America and go to Rome no treaty.
Serious Q. When this first came up in the U.S. there is something I vaguely remember about the abuse being generational, in the sense of largely centered in priests who were ordained in the 60s. Is that true, and if so why, or was it just advanced as an attempt to blame the 60s era of sexual freeing up instead of the priests who did it.
(One last question: are parochial schools more or less likely than public or private schools for these crimes to happen?)
Less likely public school teachers, principals etc are required by law to report abuse so once abuse is found out the police are responsible for making sure it does not happen again. Catholic schools I don’t know if the law applies but they report it in practice to the church and as we have seen the church returns the abuser to his old job where they often do it again.
“Priests and bishops contend they swear an oath to the Vatican itself and no other authority.”
Then let them confine themselves within the Vatican. They want society to respect the “professional secrecy of priests” but insist that their organization is above civil law?! The law for thee but not for me is the age old formula by which authoritarian oppression is enacted. Sounds like any other tax-evading criminal gang.
A relevant comment from Doug Stanhope: “With all the horrible, horrible shit that your priest is pumping into your kid’s head, his dick should be the least of your worries, honestly. That’s just a little mouthwash and a few years of therapy’ll get rid of that. That Jesus shit will torture you for a lifetime.”
“The 84-page complaint filed specifically charges, “Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, either knew and/or in some cases consciously disregarded information that showed subordinates were committing or about to commit such crimes.” [cont'd.]”
And why would anyone believe the Nazi Pope would do something so horrible?
The other day, you did a piece on the Iraqi prison, and I brought up similar points, in response to Mary’s critique. She responded about the way you are now. That somehow, incredibly, sensitivity to victims is the wrong thing to do, because of some overwhelming necessity to expose the truth with a capital ‘T’.
What’s next Robespierre? Why are you doing this? Do you want the wrongdoing to stop? Or are you enjoying digging for the stories? There is a need to expose wrongdoing, but there is no need to hurt people. Give klynn the warning. Or don’t. But don’t pretend you know what’s good for the victims better than the victims themselves.
Who would ever think that authoritarian popes would have anything in common with authoritarian regimes of every stripe.
“I was Catholic until I reached the age of reason.” -George Carlin
I hate censorship – but if you actually care about the victims, reasonable requests like yours must be respected!
Not being a victim myself, Kevin’s mistake is one I might have made, but to compound it by refusing to warn others about what was to come is abusive in itself.
Gee, who would ever think that articles about torture or child abuse would talk about, you know, torture or child abuse.
I’m not pretending at all. I don’t know what it is like to be a victim of some horrific act done to me by a priest or a bishop. I want the wrongdoing to stop. I don’t think there is any evidence that my actions are responsible for hurting anyone.
My fave Carlin factoid (learned it only recently): His mother worked on Madison Ave and they talked endlessly at the dinner table about how to manipulate the people with words and the other Mad Ave tools. It’s one the reason he got to be so good at what he did.
I was a Virgo till I was 16.
(Libra now.)
It is not a mistake. I did not post a disclaimer because what’s to disclaim? Why do I have to warn anyone, even a victim, that a post about Vatican sex crimes might include specific disgusting details of sex crimes?
We know child abuse became an issue people started to talk about in the 60′s to the press. We have no numbers and its unknown if the church ever kept numbers on this issue before that. Without access to the Pope’s records we will never know if they kept numbers.
The Pope is claiming that lax standards on Priests let a bunch of child molesters in. But since the issue was not talked about in public never mind the church which is squeamish on these matters for obvious reasons then its unlikely they talked about it.
I am curious as to which standards were loosened how could the church screen for something which psychology tests to screen for were not invented yet?
Do you see the trap the Pope is in with that argument if we take the Pope at his word then the church knowing let child molesters in by relaxing its standards.
I of course doubt they ever had standards to screen for this. But if it helps the Church has long known that many Priests have a girl or several girls on the side and has investigated and moved priests when the problem got out of hand a child being born or husband getting very angry.
Just like with child abuse the matter was covered up.
Adultery is one thing, child abuse well the church is old the age of consent used to be much younger legaly it wasn’t child abuse in many cases because the age of consent was so low.
Victorian England it was 13 I believe.
Gay Sex was also ignored. Today age is the issue we care about. The church to divide us is claiming gay sex is the issue. Never mind the church covered up Gay as well as straight sex.
Gosztola @55:
Indeed. And more from George:
“I don’t know how you feel, but I’m pretty sick of church people. You know what they ought to do with churches? Tax them. If holy people are so interested in politics, government, and public policy, let them pay the price of admission like everybody else. The Catholic Church alone could wipe out the national debt if all you did was tax their real estate.”
Archimedes said, “Give me a fulcrum and I can move the world.” Religious leaders say, “Adopt the superstitious bullshit I promote and I will use it as a fulcrum to move your world.” Mindfuckery in its various forms is always intended to destroy one’s ability to do a reality check. Who benefits?
What I remember reading was that the abuse took place mostly in the 60s. It didn’t bc public until the 80s or 90s. My Q is whether that is accurate.
R.C. sex abuse is what made the Toll Bros (builders of McMansions)so rich. They are R.C., bought the property the church sold off to pay off abused. The Toll Bros got it cheap, sold it dear.
Its only when enough people know what is going on and get angry enough does change come. Horrifying details are needed to do this as long as victims names are kept secret i have no objection. The victimizers names once convicted I have no objections. People who cover up this I have no objections to naming at all even before a conviction. Their job was to stop this!
Continue to let the church get away with this one, next thing you know they will be burning people at the stake. Religion is the prototype slippery slope.
And don’t forget: “First we kill all the violent people”
“Through all these years, I have kept alive my one remaining childhood Catholic fantasy: I’m hoping that someday a new pope will choose the name Corky. Just once in my life, I want to look up at the balcony and see His Holiness, Pope Corky IX.” -George Carlin
Stick to your guns, Kevin. More truth, less PC euphemisms is the way to go. If people don’t like an ugly truth, they will only act to change it if they are forced to confront the ugliness. Victims must deal with their victimhood on many levels and that is tragic, but one would think that your work would be the least of what they have to deal with if they have truly been victimized. That’s what therapy is for, to learn to deal and cope with the memories and consequences of the abuse. And to get beyond the need to demand that the whole world re-adjust itself to accommodate their particular and specific emotional needs arising from their specific woundedness. IMHO, we are all victims of something or other, and we each have a personal responsibility to ourselves to heal and grow beyond the trauma. It’s an internal struggle, not an external one.
Again we have no Data of what the Pope knows after all how many cases did the Church cover up? How many cases were covered up so well they never reached the Pope’s attention? Older victims tend to complain about past child abuse once they get their heads together.
We have no evidence the Church changed its policy and did anything to screen priests better after the 60′s.
We have no data to see if such a supposed program is working now. We need the Pope’s files and local church’s files to answer that.
I assume many church’s handled this problem locally and only if the problem got to big and public did the church get involved.
Look at Priests who flirt with of age women sure people suspect stuff but I am qquite sure the church does not have the manpower to investigate every case of flirting but their rules on sex say they probably should because flirting is temptation.
Because all such articles are not so specific and graphic.
My tendency was to think that what I read earlier was just an attempt to shift the blame from the perps to the “times.” But I’d like to get some actual info if/when it becomes available.
The Church much like the GOP is claiming that lax 60′s morals led to society even their society becoming more immoral. As far as the 60′s go lower wages and a drop in life style led to many divorces cash is a bigger factor in divorce than cheating.
Their is no evidence number of people who cheat has gone up its just with the rich getting richer they can afford to cheat with more people.
With the number of divorced up they have more fish to net.
With people waiting longer to afford to get married they date longer and run the risk of dating cheaters more.
The church’s real problem is people are talking openly about sin more. There is no evidence because we have no numbers that lax morals caused their problem.
I will argue more money makes the problem bigger child molester Priests have more money cars to help them drive to victims homes etc than they did in the past. This makes the opportunity to abuse more frequent.
The Church needs secrecy to cover up crime . The Church needs secrecy to prevent enough people from knowing so public anger does not force court cases for years the courts in many countries let the church handle its own.
This is changing and its good.
Ratsinger moved Cardinal Law of Boston directly into the Vatican one step ahead of the law – providing him with a prestigious post and diplomatic immunity! So this pope is guilty of obstruction of justice at a minimum.
Plus the letter he sent to Bishops when the scandal started demanding their involvement in the coverup is another smoking gun. Of course, he was only head of the renamed Inquisition then, not pope, but this Nazi bastard is one very evil fuck.
Klynn,
If you haven’t you might look into “Traumatic Incident Reduction” It has helped many, usually not too expensive.
I agree the Church is shifting blame to the Perps and its also trying to blame all the gay perps. I would love numbers too I am sure the number of straight cases out numbers the Gay ones just because there are less Gays in the population.
The Church knows Gays are unpopular so they are hate mongering Gays in an attempt to keep blame away from themselves.
Gay Straight who cares Pope this is kids! Covering up for people who hurt kids is just as bad as hurting kids.
Is Gay sex abuse worse than straight sex abuse? NO!
No one asked for censorship, only a warning of graphic content.
Plus the letter he sent to Bishops when the scandal started demanding their involvement in the coverup is another smoking gun. Of course, he was only head of the renamed Inquisition then, not pope, but this Nazi bastard is one very evil fuck.
Federal RICO charges charge the Pope and the entire church with the cover up motive is profit the church makes its money off of preaching morals child abuse scandals hurt their cash flow.
Unless one of the links has pictures is that needed? I read this stuff in the newspaper.
Sorry my 79 was not for you hit the wrong key
A victim on this thread says it was. I will defer to that person.
For myself, not necessary – even though it was graphic enough to gross me out.
Thanks for your comment.
Trigger Warnings seem to be controversial.
I think the headline and intro gave fair warning to the vulnerable. Expecting the world to adjust its natural behavior to accommodate every person’s individual needs carries its own unintended consequences, if you really think about it. FWIW, I have plenty of my own personal woundedness to deal with, but I don’t demand or expect anyone else to share what is my unique personal burden. Instead I invested heavily in therapy and personal growth. I think it is incumbent on every “victim” to grow thru their own victimhood. Getting strong again is the best revenge. Which is not to say that innocent victims do NOT have my complete sympathy and even empathy. In a perfect world, I’d be delighted to execute their abusers for them.
Thanks. Have done it.
It is not 100% and life has a way of moving goal posts when you least expect it. Even when you have been fine for a very long time and travel coast to coast speaking on the subject.
You never know when you will have a trigger despite effective treatment.
Easy for YOU to say.
What would that warning cost?
I hope that each day gets better for you and keep speaking across the country. May I ask who you speak to – groups, kids, etc?
The overwhelming majority of reported victims are male.
There are many reasons for this. Opportunity is a big one. If a priest wants to take some boys camping or fishing, it seems healthy and innocent; whereas a priest who habitually took a group of girls on such a trip would cause eyebrows to be raised – to say the least.
Another is that female victims are more likely to be considered complicit by the community and even their families. If a girl is having sex with a priest, she is “The little slut who seduced Father X.” As bad as it is for male victims who report these crimes, for female victims it is even worse.
So nobody really knows how many victims of each sex there are. What we do know is that most rapes go unreported and the barriers to accusing members of the clergy are even higher than against most rapists.
No, it’s not “easy” for me to say (I assume you don’t know what I have been thru), but it is what I believe, and what has worked best for me. It’s not about what the warning would “cost,” but rather about the “cost” of a person needing constant accommodation from the entire world, which has detrimental effects on both IMO. Opinions differ on this and I don’t mind if you disagree, and I certainly have great sympathy for any who’ve suffered.
For the record, there is no disclaimer posted by CCR or SNAP. Anyone could read the documents submitted to the ICC and experience a PTS episode.
Point of information for non-catholics.
I was a “cradle catholic”, was an altar boy and went to parochial school.
If I were a molester, seducer or a rapist, I don’t think I could possibly devise a more perfect tool to assist in that than the confessional.
All catholics are required to participate.
Making a “bad confession” (withholding sins from the confession) is a “mortal sin”. “Do not pass go, do not collect 200 bucks, go directly to hell.”
All sex acts outside of marriage (and any within it’s bounds except basic penile/vaginal sex for the purpose of procreation and even “impure thoughts” are sins that must be confessed.)
See where I’m going with this?
What an advantage this gives the seducer! Not to mention the fact that the priest can withhold absolution if the confessee is insufficiently penitent and he can prescribe the punishment/”penance”.
Like I said above at #7, but it bears repeating, superstition hurts. All superstition.
Gosh, days have been fine for me for a long time.
Thanks for your comment. Triggers just happen. They. Just. Happen.
I tend to write my own pieces with that in mind because of personal knowledge of the reality of PTS triggers being quite unexpected no matter how empowered one becomes as a victim.
People address the subject of Triggers and Trigger Warnings differently. In my own writings, using trigger warnings have not hurt the non-victim reader, nor reduced the impact of the writing.
As for your question, I speak to college age groups. I heave led Take Back The Night marches. Although, I am not speaking as much these last few years due to family commitments.
Excellent. Take Back the Night is such a good thing. Thanks for being involved and helping.
No they do not go to jail – the EU scandal had a ring of nearly 10,000 exposed with names in government on that list – there was an investigation and if memory serves (it doesn’t always these days) not move than 2 went to jail – and none in the government. Missing kids did not turn into murder investigations, jails in homes were hushed up. Belgium is to be commended for starting the investigation – but the result for almost all was just embarrassment (I recall one or two going to jail).
The SNAP news release on this has the tone and approach to use of facts in the style I tend to apply to my writing on the subject.
Expect the ranting to commence: freedom of religion and all that. What won’t be mentioned is freedom to rape and despoil, to hide and luxuriate in the hiding, allowing crimes to continue and a criminal mentality to permeate an institution that can and does good deeds, but which like Washington, has succumbed to the corruption of power. Given its age and history since Constantine, one might say the papacy defines that corruption as much as it defines the good that faith and good works can do.
“Doug Stanhope” is full of something, and it isn’t shit, it’s worse.
1. “Doug Stanhope” apparently knows nothing about sexual abuse. “…a few years of therapy…” ??? Virtually all victims of sexual abuse, particularly kids, are haunted by that abuse for a lifetime. Talk to a few of them, if they will allow it, and that will pop that arrogant balloon.
2. That ‘Jesus…’ that he condemns said that those who lead little ones astray would be better off to tie a millstone arouind their necks and jump into a lake. And that ‘Jesus…’ also preached a message of love for neighbor. What “…Jesus shit?”
Perhaps you missed Stanhope’s point by taking this exaggerated comparison too literally. Indeed, the way the Catholic Church has used Christianity, its authority and institutional power to not only perpetrate such vile sexual crimes but also to increase the criminality by consciously working to cover them up highlights what Stanhope was trying to say.
Or, there is this also: “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.” Matt. 10:34 KJV
Stanhope is a comedian. I so despise requests or attempts by liberals or progressives to sanitize issues and discussions so they are “politically correct.” With all do respect to the people who are victims of this ghastly and horrific sexual abuse and violence, I cannot accept the reasons why people will dwell so much on how something is said and put more focus on that instead of focusing more on what is said.
Amen to that, brother. Anything that stands between us and an accurate perception of reality is bad for us.
The Roman Catholic Church is the original global corporation that has effectively preyed, with impunity, on the masses for centuries. It’s also the most successful worldwide franchise of child molesters. It and all other organized religions should be treated as the businesses that they are.