The incident involving a New York Police Department (NYPD) officer unloading a canister of pepper spray on a few female protesters at the Occupy Wall Street protest on Saturday has garnered much attention. It is responsible for the huge uptick in media coverage and renewed interest in the occupation in Zuccotti Park in lower Manhattan.
The officer that unleashed the spray on protesters has had his personal details posted on the Internet. His name is Antony Bologna. The Guardian’s Karen McVeigh reports he was accused of “civil rights violations at the time of the 2004 Republican national convention protests.”
The Guardian has learned that the officer, named by activists as deputy inspector Anthony Bologna, stands accused of false arrest and civil rights violations in a claim brought by a protester involved in the 2004 demonstrations at the Republican national convention.
Then, 1,800 people were arrested during protests against the Iraq war and the policies of president George W Bush.
Alan Levine, a civil rights lawyer representing Post A Posr, a protester at the 2004 event, told the Guardian that he filed an action against Bologna and another officer, Tulio Camejo, in 2007. The case, filed at the New York Southern District Court, is expected to be heard next year.
OccupyWallSt.org has posted three videos that show different angles of the pepper-spraying. The New York Times has also posted a report on the incident and the NYPD’s reaction to video of it.
First, establishment media like the NYT ridiculously write, “Video appears to show Wall Street protesters being pepper-sprayed.” The protesters are quite clearly being sprayed. There is no “appears.” The NYT report cites the annotated version so casting doubt as to whether the protesters were sprayed with some chemical substance is ridiculous.
The NYT reports NYPD chief spokesman, Paul J. Browne, contends the officer used the pepper spray “appropriately.” It is not surprising that the spokesman would reflexively defend the action. What is absurd is that Browne continues and says the spray was used after “individuals confronted officers and tried to prevent them from deploying a mesh barrier — something that was edited out or otherwise not captured in the video.”

The video shows the moving cage or “mesh barrier” is already deployed. The female protesters are penned. In the screenshot above, one protester has her hand on her face and is freaking out at the conduct of the police. Others about to be sprayed have cameras outstretched or are close to the barrier trying to get a good look at people being thrown around by police. The police can be heard telling people to get back, but the videographer asks him if he wants them to go into the parking garage because there really isn’t much space for them to go anywhere.
The NYPD is depending on the fact that they are the NYPD and can make up whatever story they want. They are counting on the reality that whatever they say will have some credibility because the media would not disregard it even if reporters can look at video evidence and call bullshit.
In suggesting protesters have “edited” video, the NYPD is doing what any security force would do. Recall, the Israel Defense Forces said this about those massacred on the Gaza Freedom Flotilla. The protesters were not killed like those on the flotilla. That is not why this comparison is being made. The comparison is made to show that this force believes they can get away with the act that took place by discrediting the video, which is not edited at all. It runs continuously and clearly shows an officer walking up to target the protesters. The females are not pushing and making it difficult for the NYPD to contain the protesters at all.
It is reported, “Police made arrests in the area on charges not only of disorderly conduct and impeding traffic, but also of inciting to riot and assaulting a police officer.” The issue of blocking traffic is not disputed in the report, which is problematic.
The police have escorted all the marches since the occupation began. The police let the Saturday march step off and allowed it to reach the street area, where the harassment and violence by police took place. They were in charge of crowd control. Their inability to keep the protest moving and then their decision to roll out moving cages and corral protesters because they were “obstructing” traffic is in effect why traffic stopped moving. If protesters are allowed to keep walking the sidewalks or street, all is well. They move out of the area onward to another part of the city and the traffic can get through. And pedestrians who are not part of the protest do not end up detained or in a few cases arrested.
Additionally, the NYT spoke to a retired deputy chief about the pepper spraying:
“We don’t use it indiscriminately like other cities do,” said Thomas Graham, a retired deputy chief who until last year commanded the department’s Disorder Control Unit. “You’re not just spraying indiscriminately into a crowd.”
Police officers, he said, “have the choice between spraying the guy or struggling with the guy with the night stick,” he said, adding, “Get poked with a nightstick good and hard and you might have a cracked rib from that.”
Two problems arise here. Posing the idea that it’s better to be pepper-sprayed than hit with a police baton is a conceited excuse for setting off a chemical weapon on protesters. And, whether it is used more in New York or not doesn’t justify the use of the spray either.
Occupy Wall Street has called for Officer Bologna to be charged with committing a crime and do jail time. They also “demand Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly resigns” asserting Kelly is sheltering officers from punishment. They demand Mayor Michael Bloomberg “address our General Assembly and apologize for the police brutality and the cover-up that followed.” And, add:
This was an attempt to make us weak, this was an attempt to destroy or derail our message, our conversation. It has not succeeded. We have grown, we will grow. Today we received unconfirmed reports that over one hundred blue collar police refused to come into work in solidarity with our movement. These numbers will grow. We are the 99 percent. You will not silence us.
The organizers are very bold in their belief that the NYPD should pay. The movement should fight against the measures taken, which implicitly if not explicitly make people afraid of exercising their right to peaceably assemble.
It is easy to suggest the organizers will never see a single NYPD officer punished. But, then, that is cynical. The movement is boldly taking on the financial system and along with challenging Wall Street they must also call out and make demands of the security state, which has transformed Wall Street into a Green Zone shielding corporate criminals from having to face angry and passionate Americans fed up with economic injustice in America.
Here’s video of the pepper-spraying incident, if you haven’t seen it already (in addition to the spraying, one woman is pulled over the barrier and tugged by her hair across the pavement):



114 Comments

Excellent post, Kevin! Many thanks.
We may make citizen complaints about this police conduct to the New York City Citizens’ Complaint Review Board, http://www.nyc.gov/ccrb.
The online complaint form asks for specific information on victim(s), witness(es), and officer(s) that the videos do not provide. At least, I could not make out officers’ IDs.
But in the section asking for a description of the facts there’s space to include both them and links to these appalling videos. My complaint notes that the police behavior violated the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and New York State criminal laws against assault and battery.
Now, if lots of us complain….
Thank you for filing your complaint, Greenharper.
Thanks for filing the complaint.
It’s baloney to say that tony bologna only “appeared” to use pepper spray on women doing nothing. He clearly sprayed them for no reason other than he could.
NYPD brutality now has a name and a face:
“The Name of NYPD Brutality: Anthony Bologna” (EmptyWheel.Net, by emptywheel, Sept. 26, 2011)
It Can Happen Here. The First Amendment is dead.
Ray Kelly is a fascist with a mini-KGB at his beck and call.
Lawrence, my money’s on Pawlenty, O’Donnell dedicated his Rewrite segment tonight to the Pepper Spraying incident. Kudos to you Kevin for making O’Donnell take notice.
Courtesy, Professionalism, Respect, and oh yeah, sadistic jollies.
The world IS watching.
a country that legitimizes TORTURE..legitimizes brutality and SADISM…nice MAYOR BLOOMBERG
blogna is a typical republican piece of shit, eager to misuse his power like so many republican pos, cowardly maced women who couldn’t defend themselves. Such an appropriate republican action by a republican cowardly piece of shit, who did his deed and then ran before he could be identified. Garbage, like all republicans.
SERIAL SADIST
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2011/09/anonymous-goes-after-pepper-spray-cops-personal-info/42960/
To protect and serve who?
We can also file complaints with Commissioner Raymond A. Kelly at http://www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/mailnypd.html
Kelly started out after the Marines as a New York City street cop. While working as one he earned a bunch of degrees, including a law degree. I’ve immense respect for him for many reasons. Here’s one. At a G8 meeting in D.C. some years ago, Robert Rubin was speaking. Kelly sat up at the front of the room as one of the honorees. I saw that he did not, however, look at the speaker. The audience were picked and vetted delegates. There was plenty of security around the room. Kelly nonetheless kept relentlessly scanning the crowd — as a good cop should have. If he cannot control the NYPD, however — and it certainly appears that he cannot — it is time for him to step down.
assumes facts not in….yada,yada,yada
Thanks, yourself, mzchief! Every kvetch helps.
Wall Street and Bloomberg noooze of course
Tony Baloney?
Come ON!!!
OK
On the such and such a cop is Republican. First, you don’t know which of the corporate corrupted parties he supports. Second, stop with the evil Repubs meme. The only ones who do that now are supporters of the other evil, corporate party.
Back onto topic.
Kevin, we are getting word that the Chicago Occupation is being attacked by police right now. Do you have any input on it. Or can you not talk because you are there right nnnow, being attacked by the police.
Police belonging to the evil Democrats it must be stated.
I agree with NY attorney, Cynthia Kouril, here:
what makes you think kelly is trying to control his cops from being violent? i made a complaint to him about the violence of the police before the pepper spray on video happened. he’s had plenty of time to give orders to ratchet down the violence. it’s only escalated since then. plus, the spokesperson is saying the video could be edited and that bologna’s behavior was appropriate. this doesn’t sound to me like the officer was going against orders from kelly or bloomberg.
if this was against kelly’s orders, we should have heard that the officer was fired or suspended.
Does it really matter which party the officer belongs to? Dogshit is still dogshit no matter where it is at.
Kevin, your framing is weasely minimizing like they do: “The incident involving a New York Police Department (NYPD) officer unloading a canister”
Incident involving….?
It was an unprovoked attack. Unprovoked mace attack by nypd on peaceful demonstrators kept behind a plastic fence.
Not “an incident involving….”
I read that Bologna is in Internal Affairs? He’s obviously unfit to deal with actual citizens so he should be kept at his freakin’ desk, where he can only make other Cops miserable. I hope that every one of those woman sue NYC for damages and file civil rights suits and whatever else they can.
The actions of this one impulsive officer with a record threatens to disgrace the vast majority of outstanding officers. He should be routed out. Anyone who affords him protection should be deemed unworthy of the NYPD. And, Paul Browne, please think about finding an ounce of integrity. You sold your soul. Was it worth it? If you want to defend such actions, there are great jobs for you in Russia. This is the USA and we do not want to live in a police state, but in a state protected by the great men and women who serve honorably, risking their lives for the good of the people.
Corporate criminals are republican, who lie and cheat and hate. I included him because that’s how republicans act. Shooting doctors in the back, closing down our government. I also note that this shithead apparently did the same thing at the republican convention. If the films are accurate then this guy is a piece of shit any way you look at it. It is the way republicans act now, they are all pretty much pieces of shit. Perhaps this is not a good way to talk, but I’m tired of the lies and hatred of the right wing, and if I think you are a piece of shit in the republican sense I’ll tell you so. And it is so republican of you to try to conflate Democratic actions with republican ones. Clown.
Jimbo
How very Veal Pen politics of you. I was a Street Medic during the 2008 RNC in St Paul. Do you know who have the police the legal authority to brutalize protesters? Local Democrat elected officials. Then to add salt into the wound, the local police Chief, John Harrington who was in charge of the virtual, out of control cops in St Paul was just elected to Minnesota Senate.
He is a Democrat and was elected by the Democratic Party.
You call me a clown? Tell that to my face tough guy. I will be in DC October 5th. You can look me up.
Veal Pen politics indeed.
By the way folks- Just so that you know. There is an Occupy Wall Street occupation in Chicago. It is entirely possible that Our very own Kevin Kosztola may be there. There are reports coming through that the police are attempting to remove them, right now.
Our Kevin may be in a Chi Town jail, right now. Perhaps Mayor Rahm will help him eh? After all, he is not an evil Republican, right?
See updates on the last thread.
What we allowed to be unleashed on much of the world is coming home.
We must turn it back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwcKwGS7OSQ
Sow the wind reap the whirlwind, he brought his family into it with his criminality.
Every other criminal has no address protection when they are charged why the exception or elevation above the law, why him ?
How do you know he’s a Republican? Where did that come from?
I’ll grant you the likelihood is higher coming from Staten Island.
O/T Ok by me to publish name rank and command. NOT COOL AT ALL to publish his home address. That scares his family.
When you are the useful idiots of the power elite, then you have first amendment rights. When you challenge the oligarchy, you get pepper spray.
Captain Anthony Bologna is the unprovoked thug who sprayed the women, etc.
Put the heat on the reckless heat — call them on it!:
212 334-0611
212 477-7436
646 610-5000
Call each and call often. Don’t let Anthony Bologna degrade and denigrate the ENTIRE NYC Police Dept. But, since this is a repeat offense, it is time for the PD to take action.
Now for some good news . It seems that there may be more than a hundred NYPD officers refusing to come to work in solidarity with the protesters !
I myself talked to at least 30 uniformed officers who after being informed of both the reasons for the occupation and the demise of Americans civil liberties actually thanked me , several calling me brother as I left . They all “got it” when someone with some real information took the time to explain it !
On an earlier post I made when I asked ”
My question is are we going to bring working men and women, union members , people of color, religious congregations , other political groups and older statesmen into the fray”
someone told me,
“What a stupid question:
Did you learn NOTHING of the Vietnam protests? The young are the leaders.”
I would like to point out that worker rights at the turn of the century, and civil rights in the south were not won or fought for by only the young and neither was Madison Wisconsin’s recent struggle .
We are all in this together !
That includes the police and the rich who this protest is directed against .
The rich seem to have forgotten this .
HAVE WE ?
http://october2011.org/blogs/kevin-zeese/are-nyc-police-protesting-abuse-occupy-wall-street
Namaste
I find it amusing that Bologna is quoted in today’s Times as being afraid for his family now. Seems to me that the family of every protester shares that fear re their own family members, and we have seen how much sympathy Bologna and the NYPD have for those fears. Goose, meet gander. These types can only understand their own personal pains and concerns.
Perhaps one lesson from viet nam era protests is that the young were protesting being drafted to kill or be killed on foreign soil?
Blacks largely were the force behind the struggle during the civil rights era . Does that mean that blacks are the real leaders in every struggle.
One Love,One People, One Destiny !
Bob Marley
Jesus said in the sermon on the mount ” resist not evil ”
Because if you become what you despise you have already lost the battle !
Other wise you are no better than what what you oppose or worse .
It’s called the golden rule .
646 610 6700 DCPI “Go out and gety a job already.” Dick.
Ask for PR on the number above and you’ll see exactly NOT how to do PR. NYPD is not responding.
They are making this situation worse.
Nelson mandela’s struggle in South Africa and Gandhi’s in India were not accomplished by only the youth . There was a vital difference however between their situations and ours in 21st century America .
This is well illustrated by a recent survey that revealed that nearly 7 out of 10 Americans could not come up with $1000 dollars in an emergency .
A day or week means for many above the age of 30 being put out on the street with your kids !
We have largely become a nation of slaves to credit and banks . A plush cage but a cage nonetheless .
Not all of us share this fate but the vast majority do .
Sorry, but I think that’s fallacious reasoning. Same rules for everyone is my bottom line.
I don’t think that you are disagreeing. freeman is acknowledging that there is evil in the world. You are acknowledging that moral judgments fall on the evil as well.
Tactically how do you deal with evil. The answer of Gandhi was nonviolent resistance. In the quaint terms of the King James Version of the Bible: resist not evil, but overcome evil with good. And that narrative involves Jesus taking a switch and driving the moneychangers out of the temple.
The progressive movement of a century ago talked about “driving the moneychangers out of the Temple of Democracy”.
That is a situation that each person must decide how to handle. Including what “getting put out on a street with your kids” looks like. There are lots of folks already in that situation. An encampment that is a community of more than just the homeless can make that situation bearable enough to allow these folks to engage in social action again.
What you describe is something that those without those commitments must take into account.
BTW, that’s democracy, not religion. Much more compelling and legitimate, IMO.
That is not religion in this case. It is a discourse that Jesus gave the disciples about tactics.
IMO, the golden rule is a wonderful script to follow once a reasonable situation is in place. Until then, it’s a fight, and “same rules for everyone” is a more reasonable interim goal.
Second thought. The reduction of an active movement to a religion or an ideology is the first step to marginalization or co-option.
Can’t see that distinction here. Tactics generally involve some less-than-pure considerations. The Jesus/Ghandi example only works vs. an adversary that has a moral sense of shame and right/wrong. Which I don’t think our current adversaries have. Besides, it pays to keep in mind how things worked out for Jesus.
Well, what exactly is that “same rule”?
In the instant case, it means denying anonymity and a personal zone of invulnerability to a criminal thug of a policeman. It may well translate to fewer injured protesters going forward. That’s important to me.
Well you see how things worked out for Gandhi and Martin Luther King.
Things seemed to have worked out well for the movement that Jesus started. It has lasted long enough to have been through multiple cycles of utter corruption. And to have inspired the 19th and 20th century progressive movement, Gandhi, and Martin Luther King. You can bury an idea under an oppressive institutional structure, heavy layers of theology or ideology, or widespread insincere practice, but eventually someone takes it seriously again.
From a tactical perspective, nonviolence works to the extent that there is a power capable of being shamed and having the power to force change. That is why states rights and pleas to recognition of sovereignty are key demands of oppressive states.
Nonviolence is a tactic. There are situations in which it absolutely does not apply, where the power is so pervasive that a long-term nonviolent solution means genocide. And even then, if violence successfully overcomes that oppressor, one has to admit that it takes a moral toll that must be acknowledged to avoid falling into the pattern that violence is the first solution.
There are arguments that Jesus’s driving out the moneychangers was not nonviolent.
Decisions cannot be made purely by principle, because there are multiple and contradictory principles. In real situations, moral action requires judgment as to which principles apply to that situation. And there never is certainty in hindsight as to whether the correct ones were chosen.
You are very thoughtful and flexible, and that is why I admire you. Don’t disagree with anything you said.
So the oppressor’s rule is applied against the oppressor. That is the principle behind this rule.
How far do you go with this?
I agree with Cynthia Kouril that the officer’s family did not act against the victims and should not be made vulnerable. The principle behind that is proportionality. And not applying guilt by association.
But the officer’s identity, superior officer, unit, and unit’s location are fair game.
Can anyone hear what Susan Sarandon is saying on LS?
I think the PTB learned that a crackdown on the activists was counterproductive. Yesterday was quiet and I’m betting that today will be quiet too.
Interesting idea. Jubilee was part of the Old Testament law (a part that there is no evidence of having been observed). The idea is that every 50 years all debts would be forgiven, and everyone would start over with no debt.
I heard whatshisname who wrote Debt: the First 5000 years suggest the idea. He was saying that as long as the 1% owes a lot of debt, debt is unimportant. However, there have been times in history when debt — a social contract — has to be totally renegotiated because the masses owe the rich and have absolutely no chance of paying it off.
It’s our job to stand behind the good cops who stand down in order to “protect and defend” the People in the face of pressure to join the fascists.
Then there are the fascist cops that like to dress up like Ninja Turtle Thugs and have a good time. The fascists depend upon this praetorian guard.
Bloomberg is ultimately accountable for the cops who are the praetorian guard that serve him.
I can sympathize with that argument in principle. However, the pragmatic result of that is that the cop gets the benefit of hiding behind an institutional structure that we already know will protect him no matter how wrong he is. We’ve already seen the official police response, i.e., that he did nothing wrong. The protection of his pack makes him and other cops invulnerable to any real pressure to change his ways. Likely result: More injuries to innocent protesters. OTOH, the cops’ actions result in real physical violence to undeserving victims, and might succeed in derailing the whole movement, while the damage to the cop of being exposed is that he may suffer humiliation at the only place where he is really reachable, at his home. IMO, there is zero chance that anyone on our side would commit violence against his family, so that is not really a consideration. And if his family supports his criminal behavior, then they deserve to share in his humilation. If they disapprove of his behavior, then it is good if they give him grief for bringing his bad behavior home to them. Note: Nobody on the other side is observing such niceties vis a vis our side. Same rules for everyone at any given moment is a morally defensible position, IMO, and also a tactically smart one, up to a point.
I suspect that the new strategy is let them hold the park as long as interest and support hold out. What Marcuse called repressive tolerance.
Will folks be donating pizzas three months from now? How many people can put their lives on hold for how long?
Dealing with repressive tolerance is going to change the form of protest unless other cities can ramp up to critical mass quickly and force the political issue of process.
In addition to #OccupyWallStreet,the general assembly process needs to be extended to the neighborhoods of NYC–with those people adding to the numbers at key #OccupyWallStreet actions.
And how would we know that this is true?
Agree. Isn’t this action ending and merging with October11 to occupy DC October 6?
Occupy Chicago Day 4 Part VII
October 6 is also being promoted by MoveOn and Rebuild the American Dream. For them, I think the organizing is for a huge one-day protest with large numbers. The larger the better.
The main issue this informal coalition faces is recruiting and moving large numbers of folks who aren’t DC residents or are not served by transit into the venues.
But even then, there is the probability of repressive tolerance (of the “First they will ignore you” variety.
Occupy LA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS_VO6ONmfs
An issue the liveblog is facing is how to cover all of the solidarity occupations that are occurrring and setting up their own livestreams. How to become a central location for folks finding out what’s going on and liveblogging.
If not true, then they will disapprove him, and that negative feedback from his most personal “pack” may well be the only meaningful consequence he experiences. This is all a matter of fine judgments and balancing, of course. I concede that my own balancing mechanism tends to trend toward being less saintly than some here. I’m OK with that, I know my heart is good and my preference is to be tolerant, gentle, and empathic toward everyone.
I’m not sure I agree with what Susan Sarandon’s saying. Hmm…
What was the venue of that clip? LA City Hall?
What is she saying?
And the process allow for even ideological disagreements over a wide spectrum.
She doesn’t really get it, IMO.
Stuff like “You have to approach politicians, and also give them a way of covering their asses.
And…
“You need a single concrete demand. Think soundbite.”
It just sounds to me like “Keep doing what we’ve been trying and completely failing at for decades.” to me.
I don’t know I just saw it on youtube, which btw a commenter states is censoring the OWS stuff. I don’t know about that but wouldn’t be surprised since they are owned by Google which is connected to US intelligence.
Yeah. Michael Moore does, tho, I think.
My wife disagrees with me and agrees with you. Her point is the fact that Anonymous’s release of family information might deter other jerks who hide behind the NYPD’s “no accountability” practice.
And that the deterrence might prevent future attacks.
Moore does, definitely.
Sarandon saying “can’t be just against Wall Street, have to be constructive…” – strikes me as more of the “what are your demands” crap.
Edit: agree with you at 72 above.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see TPTB sacrifice one of their own in order to justify a crackdown.
These cops are working for very dangerous people.
She doesn’t get it. But that will become just one data point in the overall process. Susan Sarandon doesn’t claim any more privilege in the process than anyone else.
And place her in context. She is one of the 1% who will dialog with the 99% and advocates liberal positions. But she still lives in the world of the 1%.
Yep. The goal is much more revolutionary than she understands, I think.
Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking. It’s a really interesting juxtaposition between her and Moore. I think Moore only relatively recently came into “big money”, and the financial destitution of his parents/friends/etc in Flint is still a vivid memory for him, perhaps.
Sarandon also managed to piss me off, right off the bat, by essentially arguing that the pepper sprayed girls must have somehow had it coming.
LOL. When your wife and I are in complete accord, a wise man might consider recalibrating his position.
Interesting that Sarandon is now saying that Wall Street should not have gotten bonuses, indicates something is wrong , but not sure what to do about it!
Not constructive, Susan. /s
WOW, she is really condescending.
She referred to it as “mismanagement” that caused the problem. Totally clueless.
I REALLY DON’T LIKE HER!!!
Hit mute. Feel better now. lol.
Didn’t catch that part, came in late, but that really sucks.
She’s off now anyway.
Moore’s whole life still revolves around the people of Michigan. That is still his base.
TAIBBI on #OWS!
(h/t, our very own username on twitter)
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/occupy-wall-street-drawing-the-battle-lines-20110927
Don’t take it out on the mute. Sheesh, that’s barbaric.
What we need to be aware of is how easily we ourselves ascribe privileged speech to the folks that the corporate media privileges. That is one of the symptoms. How easy it is for us to unconsciously buy into the system’s self-understanding.
Occupy Boston now has a blog up with details on their meeting tonight.
Also have OccupyBuffalo (@occupbuf) as well as fledgeling @occupylexky, @occupyarkansas and another try at @occupyokc11.
Be back later. Have to run some errands. Check out my diary over at Booman Tribune. Booman doesn’t get it yet either. He’s just another data point. So don’t be too rough on him. The self-described “A-list” bloggers don’t have privileged speech either. Some of the regulars over there will deal with this.
We will look back on an ancien regime and those who populated it.
LOL!
Extremely good and important point.
Ya hoo!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwcKwGS7OSQ
lol.
Hello, everyone.
Live blog is going up late because I just spent the morning writing a lengthy piece of commentary on Occupy Wall Street that is about to go up. I’ll launch the live blog for today after I get it up and I will include some of the updates you’ve been sharing.
Thanks all.
Thanks to you, Kevin. My hero.
Thank you, Kevin!
Thanks, Kevin.
If you check the October2011.org website, you will find that October 6 in Washington, DC, is the first day of an event that is being promoted by many progressive organizations, including FDL and Gray Panthers. The idea is to stay as long as it takes.
Your advocating denying anonymity to the mans family which is not the same as denying it to the policeman in question .
What did his wife and kids do to the protesters exactly ?
That so called religious rule is also a basic rule of physics . Every action has an equal and opposite reaction .
If you want to start a new pattern you have to propose a new action , not merely contribute to the confusion by acting the same way as your adversary .
Who was it that sad the ends justify the means …. ? Machiavelli
You advocate his philosophy ? SO do the upper 1% and their ilk on Wallstreet .
http://www.publicbookshelf.com/public_html/Outline_of_Great_Books_Volume_I/machiavell_bfa.html
Unless pushed ?
I refer you to the dialogue between me and TarheelDemocrat, comments #42-82 above. Reasonable people can disagree on this particular point, but I laid out my reasoning already. I do not expect that Bologna will experience any meaningful negative consequences from the NYPD institution or the courts. I would only add that if you really believe in the cause and effect principle you reference, then why should not the police violence also elicit a similar reaction? But I’m not going there, so I’m pretty comfortable with the overall reasoning of my position. And yes, if you push me far enough, I will push back.
That ma7y well be but the movement we are constructing together will suffer .
Maybe you missed the part where 100 policemen or more have taken the day off in solidarity with the protesters .
They are as much a part of this as you and I and the rest of the planet .
We are all connected.
Okay — as I get the live blog for today set, here’s the lengthy commentary I felt I had to produce before I could continue covering Occupy Wall Street:
http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2011/09/27/why-establishment-media-the-power-elite-loathe-occupy-wall-street/
I’m all for pushing back brother . Gandhi, MLK and Mandela did not advocate rolling over , they were entirely confrontational in their actions .
Publishing the mans family address puts innocent people at risk and that in addition to being immoral is the bet way to alienate our potential allies in the NYPD .
This struggle will be played out in many different ways and on many different levels. Some flexibility of thought and tactics will be required. If we keep our hearts in a good place overall, it will all turn out OK. Moving to the new thread now. I don’t share your concern about violence to Bologna’s family. I don’t think any on our side are looking to do violence.
I agree with that.
The best press the movement will probably get in gathering a wider audience is probably the acts of police violence caught on tape and making their way to the internet .
The protest loses popular momentum if it acts violently and hands our adversaries the best weapon against us in the struggle , a reason to use further violence and an opportunity to turn public opinion against us .