This performance by Mayor Slay is further evidence that the purpose of the Democratic Party is to act as a buffer between rank-and-file progressives and the Beltway/Wall Street crowd that runs the country.

Keep democracy alive. Vote 3rd Party in 2012. The only message they will hear is defeat.

Unsurprisingly, moneyed interests oppose these protests and attempt to use back-room insider channels to end them. If you can judge yourself by the enemies you make, the protesters must be on the right side of things.

St. Louis city politics are corrupt as the day is long. Sadly they have voted Democratic for the last well forever. This should show that elections do not change anything only the people rising up can affect change. Hopefully there will be more support for this movement in St. Louis. I am staying in contact with Paul with occupy and hopefully I can provide details as they are available.

And to make it clear, St. Louis is only doing what (allegedly “liberal”) Seattle has done, which is to say, the bidding of the downtown business interests. Seattle long ago effectively criminalized the Occupy protest going on here, which was opposed by interests such as (oh say) the Nordstrom family as well local bank branches, etc.

(Our protesters were right across the street from a Macy’s also, etc)

Money talks eh?

The people have a right to peaceably assemble. This right has been abridged. If the 1% keep pushing, though I don’t want this to happen, there will eventually be riots. I don’t think that’s the correct way to do things but too many people are feeling the back against there wall and will eventually push back. And some of those people will push back violently. The 1% is courting their own disaster.

what do you mean a curfew law. the city has a curfew law?

Autocrates, the 1%, etc. the rich won’t be forced to face their failures, not in the south.

Without changing the political culture, even voting third party will not bring change. At this point the 2012 elections are pretty much irrelevant until the political culture changes.

Gee…we haven’t heard much about “shared sacrifice” since #occupy started. Just sayin’. I wonder what the board members have sacrificed lately?

Agreed.

There need not be riots. If more an more people turn out to occupy nonviolently. There are folks who have taken the success of Occupy Wall Street for granted and think the battle is won just because there are some tents in a city. As the sign says:

The Beginning is near.

(Firedoglake donated tarps and clothing, which probably were all piled into garbage trucks and destroyed illegitimately by the city.)

Sounds like the various encampments need an evacuation plan that includes salvaging their gear as much as possible.

Keep democracy alive
Don’t continue to validate our corrupt, broken system

Do NOT bother to vote.
It only encourages them.

Did Occupy Oakland stare Jean Quan down last night?

Without a change in the political culture, even that is irrelevant because it lets the winner claim that they have consent.

The City of Gainesville FL honors its veterans

Oakland’s shadow government:
http://sfbayview.com/2011/whose-streets-oakland’s-shadow-government-presses-city-hall-to-end-the-occupation/

Police handed out notices yesterday at Occupy Oakland telling people they were in violation of camping and other laws and that if they didn’t leave, they could be arrested. This is what happened a few days before the last raid, so people are expecting a raid any minute. According to the MSM, Quan was supposedly trying to buy a little time and move the camp to some building that was to be offered by an anonymous benefactor. But City Administrator Santana and the Police Chief were ready to act on their own and they have a small window in which they might be able to receive mutual aid from other law enforcement. So I suspect we’ll see another version of October 25th with perhaps more resistance, depending on how many people are willing to be bribed with hotel and homeless shelter vouchers or choose not to be brutalized. I have little faith in OPD’s ability to use any restraint once they start rioting.

I didn’t follow closely last night, but I saw tweets saying that the previous eviction notice was served on a Friday and the camp was cleared the following Tuesday. Next Tuesday is the Cal strike, so my bet is Wednesday for clearing. I’m always wrong on predictions, though.

I think it will happen before that. Other police departments are refusing to give Oakland mutual aid because they no longer consider this an emergency and they’re worried about being sued. People here are suggesting that it’s very likely to happen before the Cal strike. I’m guessing they will try to pick off a few more individuals and then it will happen either tonight or tomorrow night, while City offices are still closed and there are fewer witnesses downtown.

True. The mayor of Oakland is a Democrat as well. Seems like the Dem mayors are the ones cracking down hardest on these protests.

If the city clears the camp over the weekend, huge crowds will return to the streets. With the Cal strike on Tuesday, Monday and Tuesday seem unlikely for the same reason. Are you at the OG Plaza?

The Chamber of Commerce also purports to represent small businesses but is largely made up of banks, real estate interests and other members of the 1 percent. Here’s the business directory. Scroll down to the bottom to see the Chairman’s Circle crawler and that will give you an idea of who is really calling the shots. http://www.oaklandchamber.com/CWT/External/WCPages/WCDirectory/Directory.aspx?action=catlist&adkeyword=categorylist

It’d make more sense to try for Monday in an attempt to pre empt large action no?

I’m not near Oakland but if there was a major action planned and I were the PTB I’d do something before that major action.

Hmm…So the city’s plan is to clear the camp while neighboring offices are closed then and ask for police reinforcements for the huge crowds that come in response to the clearing? Huh.

The mayor of St. Louis, the city council members, and any police official who were in favor of ending the Occupy encampment should be forced to resign and step down from office immediately. The people should not wait for the next election because, at this point, elections are pointless. Any politician who is against the occupy movement is simply occupying political office and is representing, protecting, and serving the top richest 0.5% of Americans at the expense of the bottom 99.5% of Americans. That politician does not belong in office, has effectively lost the consent of the people to govern, and should be forced out immediately. A general strike in each city could achieve this effect.

No, I am not there right now but I’ve been talking to people online who are. I am hoping to get down there later today. Everything I have heard and read leads me to believe that there is huge pressure to remove the camp ASAP. I don’t know what OPD has planned for the day after, when campers will try to take the plaza again. So there are plenty of arguments for and against certain timeframes. My bet is on whatever is stupidest and will do the most damage.

The last clearing *caused* the major police violence that drew the huge crowds and the general strike. With another strike planned for Tuesday, police clearing on Monday would be counterintuitive, IMO.

Here’s one “behind the scenes” story from the SF Chronicle: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/11/12/MN7V1LTTHP.DTL

LOL. Stupidity always wins.

Urban Democratic machine mayors or “reform” mayors who depended on the Chamber of Commerce to get elected are the most politically vulnerable to the Occupy Wall Street movement right now because the numbers are larger in those cities.

It seems more a matter of the proportion of campers to the population than political affiliation. There is a size that mayors can ignore. When it grows larger, mayors feel threatened that they can’t “control the situation”. It might be that Oakland and NYC have gone beyond that point, which accounts for the mayor’s vacillation on action.

Then there are the black Democratic mayors of cities. Mayor Kasim Reed of Atlanta and Mayor Sam Jones of Mobile AL have come down hard on protesters in their cities despite some history of being protesters themselves.

Counterintuitive wins the day at OPD. Other than pressure from the business community and those imaginary citizens of Oakland, there is no real reason to close down the camp. Their main argument is that OO is using up scarce police and city resources and drawing a criminal element. The intuitive solution to that would be for them to have a reasonable police presence around the plaza like they did before we got there and to stop keeping a contingent of stormtroopers in the City Hall basement or whatever they’ve been doing. Raiding the camp and fending off the returning occupiers costs tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars; it would be way cheaper to figure out a way to accommodate us. But noooooooooooo.

All in due time. Twenty people or 200 people calling a general strike outside of the Bay Area generally gets a yawn.

Fox News At Its Finest, Part XV: Supersized Occupy Wall Street edition, now with over 100% more captions and 50% more snarky commentary.

Well that article sure suggests sooner rather than later. I’m wondering what poll indicated that OAK peeps wanted the camp shut down because the general strike demonstrated exactly the opposite.

It’s the discussion of local issues and the way the 1% drive local politics that they want to shut down. Even if they know the determination of folks to stay and participate, these periodic raids disrupt the general assembly’s consideration of a wide range of topics, its ability to attract addition people through teach-ins and site visits, and so on.

“This performance by Mayor Slay
Sly is further evidence…”

Fixed it…

Bet it was a Chamber of Commerce poll.

I don’t know if this has already been mentioned, but the representative of Occupy Portland gave a firm and courageous presentation on the PBS Newshour in a confrontation with the mayor and Jim Lehrer. He did his best to align the argument where it needed to be and succeeded in demonstrating the disconnect between what those two were attempting to orchestrate and what the aims of a true democracy ought to be.

Yes 10pm to 6 am. Until they don’t have one all depends what the agenda is.

I am surprised that some of the on lookers or friends of the protestors didn’t try to acquire their gear.

Hi, I rarely comment, but have done more so since the #OWS movement began. I think what is being revealed here, and is surprising to some, is the extent to which the power of corporate influence reigns, even in local government. I disagree, however, that voting is a mute point. It is not the candidate so much but the system itself. Rather than voting for anyone, which is an abysmal failure even before the fact, why not use the one vote we have to indict the system. We have for generations been spoon fed all this so called wisdom about not voting for any but the 2 parties. This wisdom has been handed down by the two parties in question. Hence, there lies a serious question with regard to the veracity of said wisdom. Vote NO party, both are corrupt beyond measure. We can make our vote count, though, if we use it as a means to send a message. We can do this by writing in a candidate. I have volunteered for political candidates and parties in the past. Both parties, as far as I know, do look at the write ins. If we have a coordinated write in candidate it will send a message. My suggestion (and this is what I plan to do with my little, one vote a tiny whisper of a voice) is to write in The 99%, and/or #OWS, for every choice I am given on that ballot. There isn’t even any point paying attention to actual candidates, they can do nothing. So why vote for one. I seems to me that using our vote in this manner may be the only legitimate use of this tool for our democracy that we have left.
So, forgive my intrusion to your lovely and informative conversation, I just couldn’t hold back putting in my two cents, I guess because of how deeply troubling the whole of what is going on is.

The mayor of Oakland is a corporatist. Democrat

Hope you didn’t mind the edit. *g*

In response to thirdpartyca@#29:

This is becoming a very appropriate response of the citizenry. The people of Mesa County in Arizona did organize a successful recall, the first in that legislature’s history, so these kinds of undertakings are not only possible but have had proven success. Perhaps along with the foreclosure occupations there could also be recall occupations, especially if the tent occupies are under seige. Hit ‘em where they live. The movement can remain apolitical, simply strategize towards whichever ‘party’ has the most likelihood to succeed. In Arizona, it was still a Republican – the point was to remove the guy doing all the damage.

I wouldn’t be surprised. But I can see even some of those Oakland residents who participated in the general strike being fooled into thinking that dismantling the camp is not synonymous with dismantling OO, which of course they all wholeheartedly “support.” The shooting really helped coalesce that magical little thought, that somehow an occupation can still work without a place to occupy, since occupying is just so darn messy and in your face. That is, without a doubt, my biggest frustration – trying to explain the civil disobedience aspect to the kumbaya kontingent who wants to work with the PTB.

Oh, and Mayor Quan is neither a corporatist or a Democrat – she is toast.

“This performance by Mayor slime Slay
Sly is further evidence…”

Sorry further editing was needed. I live in St. Louis and wanted to fully reflect what the Mayor is.

I am certainly looking at what you are suggesting, walkinboots, for the next presidential election. And I think if enough of us can focus on a single writein, that will be a significant enterprise, even with voting now as compromised as it is. But along with that intention comes another visceral one, which is to remove the person currently occupying the position of power, and in that case I can see the merit to casting aside any party considerations pro or contra and just using the elimination method that was used in Arizona. This can happen when the ‘representative’ in question is considered so toxic that what is paramount is to get rid of him.

Ideally we would have a third party or independent candidate in the field who would attract the necessary votes to overwhelm party politics, but what Arizona did worked and that needs to be put into the mix. It is another way of sending the message, one which might appeal to folk who have a hard time saying they are not Republican or not Democrats. If they feel they are, fine, a candidate must be found to appeal to those people in order to have success. This will have the overall effect of diminishing the corporate Party influence, of taking both parties eventually back to their less overbearing status.

I know, not everyone will agree, and ultimately we do need to get back to the point where other parties are part of the debate and have the potential to attract voters in meaningful numbers. It doesn’t seem that even now we are sufficiently powerful in our own right to be able to do that; but we are getting there, and this is about that.

From the SF Chronicle print edition:
Oakland police officer, Johanna Watson said OPD have interviewed several witnesses to the incident where Lance Laverdure and M<argaret So were struck by a silver Mercedes Benz on Nov.2.
So suffered a broken ankle and Laverdure suffered internal injuries. So's attorney is "perplexed by why Oakland police have yet to interview So or several people who say they saw the accident." "Lavendure has been interviewed only once, while he was in the hospital. Watson said police have interviewed several witnesses. Based on their statements and video of the crash, the case was given to officers who handle serious crimes rather than routing accidents."

No link, it;s from the print edition.

On the surface it looks like this investigation is being put in the right category, "Serious crime."
We'll see if it stays there.

Some folks took a perfectly good vacant building the day of the general strike. They could get a couple thousand people and occupy that.

It is possible to have an intermittent Occupy organization. In the South, that is how they have been starting. But that is before occupying a site. And even then, negotiated permitting gets arbitrarily revoked (see Atlanta, Mobile). But retreating from a highly defended site to daily or weekly meeting would kill momentum (the City of Oakland’s goal).

Gotta do something about those voting machines first IMHO.

No apology needed, popyeye99, you hit the nail on the head!

Yes, our other favorite pigs, the BART cops, let that driver go. They basically threw up their hands and said, it’s an OPD issue because it was maybe a block or two out of their jurisdiction. Lucky that dude just rammed a couple of protestors and not a cop. How many times have we all read about drivers being gunned down because they were attempting to run over a cop?

here is the thing. while we have been busy and took for granted we had all these rights and freedom, TPB have been passing laws to restrict those rights. Ventura last week lost his case to sue the DHS for violating his constitutional right under the 4th amendment. The judge after sitting on his case for 10 months ruled he had no standing in her court and under the law had to go to the court of appeals per the patriot act. well the act says you have to file with the appeals court within 60 days of filing complaint. the judge sat on it for 10 months, so the 60 days had passed and now he has no legal avenue.

Same here occupy can get shut down for a myriad of reasons

safety
health
curfew
various penal codes

none of these have ever been challenged as impeding your first amendment and which one trumps? even if occupy were to challenge now it would be years going through the courts.

There is no way outside of building a huge consensus and actually having that occur that a vote will have any meaning, even locally. That consensus is easier to build locally than nationally. But it requires some movement that meets and works through strategy in order to succeed at it. That movement right now is Occupy Wall Street.

What you will see is that the right will not withhold its vote under any circumstances, and because the rightwing is driven by the PtB, the default position in any election in the current political culture is a PtB victory. No matter what you do. The question is what else gets brought in when that victory occurs. Democrats depend on that second issue in order to win elections. And it is not a bogus issue.

There are no electoral ways out of this. The fundamental political culture and media environment has to be changed before elections are are irrelevant at best and disastrous at worst.

carol, dismantling the camps is a serious offence against the citizenry. This is the kind of thing that should initiate not only physical response from the citizenry in support, such as happened in New York, but recall of the politicians involved. That’s not as immediate as one would like to see, but Arizona has done the impossible and that can be a template. It ought to be happening behind the scenes in every Occupy that is under this threat, and the more it happens, I believe it will succeed. The citizens will be supportive, because this very obviously infringes on First Amendment rights because public squares belong to the people and not to the corporations.

Mayor Bloomberg knows he is under threat; the people made that very evident. So, I do hope the people will make it evident also in the other Occupies, whether by their physical presence when needed or by removing the offending officials through the recall process. If neither of these can work, indeed there will be riots I fear, because the surge has begun. It would be better for all concerned if the trampling of citizen’s rights stop right now. At some point it will, and we all want less carnage, not more.

There is talk of occupying a building. I have no idea what will happen after they raid the camp; I guess a lot of it depends on OPD’s plan to secure the plaza indefinitely. I suspect my comrades are not going down without a fight and will keep trying to take the plaza back, even if they eventually choose another location. They will need to do more than just put up a fence, because this is what happened to the last one: http://veracitystew.com/2011/10/29/tear-down-the-fence-occupy-oakland-gets-creative-photo/

They have been challenged, and the case law defends permitting on the grounds of health and safety, a curfew in a “high-crime” area being defended for safety. What hasn’t been challenged effectively is selective enforcement. The authorities will enforce curfew on protesters at a downtown plaza but not tennis players at a suburban park.

Reply to juliania @ 50
Here is a link to the Arizona story that has been mentioned that took place in Arizona:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/11/11/EDI11LT931.DTL

Huzzah for public art. And it didn’t require a half-million-dollar commissioning.

I wish I had faith in the electoral system on a local or national level, but I have zero. Mayor Quan is likely to get recalled – the recall started before OO because business interests don’t like her and how has picked up speed since she has lost even her most fervent supporters. She is only mayor because of the ranked choice voting system. The guy who got the most votes, Don Perata, cannot wait to occupy the chair that he thinks is rightfully his. And he’s an even bigger tool of the one percent. Until we get the money out, nothing will change. I tend toward the idea that the empire is gonna have to fall all the way before we can build it back again. I am not saying that is my wish, just my expectation.

Have they been challenged in the context of it restricting your first amendment right

Yes they have but it has been individual local cases and not a definitive Constitutional ruling yes (I think that’s right–IANAL). Consider the composition of the current Supreme Court and its ruling on the PATRIOT Act before getting too excited about a legal challenge that goes all the way to the Supreme Court.

My reply is also to TarHeel, thank you for your thoughtful, as ever comments. I may hold a more pessimistic view than most here. Included in that view is what is currently occurring in Europe. To my way of thinking the banking cartel is systematically grabbing the leaders of individual nations by the front of the shirt, sticking a knife to their ribs and saying “Do what we want or else.” BofA’s recent move of putting those lovely toxic assets into the FDIC column, places the American taxpayer at grave risk. When the cartel representatives decide that it is our turn, the few voices that will be raised on behalf of the American taxpayer, will be as a gnat against the spin that will be coming out of the our elected thieves. I mean leaders. There is much that can happen between now and Nov. 2012, we may find we have no other choice. Unless, of course, His Royal Plutocroness, is found to have more than one personality, and that there has been an alter in charge for these past 3 years. Unlikely. Regardless, I see the system as the problem, therefore no individual can function within it effectively. Changing my mind has never been an obstacle when new evidence or information arises. I may change my mind should that occur. It has happened before. Thank you again, for your words and considerations.

I just did a quick search and here is what i learned

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

he Schenck, Abrams, Whitney, and Dennis decisions were all invalidated by Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969). A KKK leader had been convicted of advocating violence under Ohio’s criminal syndicalism statute for his participation in a rally and for the speech he made implying that the President, Congress, and Supreme Court were enemies of the Klan’s cause. But, SCOTUS reversed Brandenburg’s conviction, stating that government cannot constitutionally punish abstract advocacy of force or law violation. Justice Brennan substituted a modified “clear and present danger” test with the new rule of “imminent lawless action.” Thus, inflammatory speech is only punishable if it not only incites “lawless action”, but said action must be both likely and imminent.

so my understanding and it was a quick search means the police have to show lawless action that is both imminent and likely. How did they show this in st louis

hfcarol, I am becoming more and more convinced of the same. This I would never wish, but in viewing things, it increasingly appears that measures to prolong life may be contraindicated, because it is a systemic illness that will not respond. Worrisome, to say the least. But I may be pessimistic today.

sen mmike graval about 13 mins into ths talks about direct democracy which he has been working on for 25 years. watch and tweet facebook to everyone you know. powerful stuff

http://maxkeiser.com/2011/11/12/kr209-keiser-report-cameron-osborne-on-the-run/#comments

I was very impressed with that interview! Yesterday, we talked a bit about propaganda against #occupy and #occupy’s response. The Portland occupier was brilliant, IMO.

Jesus H. Jones!
Can someone tell me what that board does, who pays for their salaries and why does it need so many of the 1 percenters?

The irony that the Treasurer of the Blues Museum signed on to violently evict occupiers who are collectively voicing our current blues is too much.

OWSters: RunOn BANK$. RunOn WALL $TREET-WALKER$. RunOn OUR streets RunOn our sentencings. RunOn co-opters. RunOn FOREIGN occupations. … OWSt. Baracketeers and DEMiserepubilkans, ALL!

Wonder if it still qualifies as a “high crime” area, or if the occupation has remedied that status? Anyone compare arrest/crime type data?

If codes are meant to prevent actual crime, or as an excuse for decreasing police budgets, but actually create new crime (homeless not criminals until given tickets they can’t pay), interfere with “Public Purposes”, are the codes then in conflict with the laws as well as the Constitution?

Hey, if the Public wants codes changed in order to remedy conflicts and prevent obstruction of Public Use, that should go before town councils even while “Occupied”.

And isn’t the Fourth Amendment referring to search and seizure based on probable cause, not confiscation and destruction for punitive purposes?

I support the occupy movement and am sad that St Louis has been shut down.

I do need to report that occupy madison is fully a sham, having been co-opted by a few people that do not actually allow others to participate and use all the procedures that they claim are directly from OWS to silence those that are not goose-stepping in unison.

New faces, ideas, and any input is not welcome and is shut down on parliamentary grounds, though if you are one of the Occupy Madison Gods, you may interrupt anyone, ask any question, or make any point you like whenever.

I don’t report this to be critical – I would like the movement to succeed. If I took the time to key the whole story, you would understand.

As of this afternoon, many of the folks that did the “grunt” work are movin’ on because of abuse from a few “insiders” and, interestingly enough, union “outsiders”.

Props to Occupy St. Louis for resisting. I hope they can continue to find ways to resist.

Solidarity from Occupy Raleigh.