The “To Serve And To Protect” people have met the enemy and they are “Us”.

They are “protecting” the 1%. Everything else is sophistry.

Where is Hillary to condemn the violence against peaceful protesters?

Oh wait. This isn’t a foreign dictatorship the State Department wants to bring down. Forget what I said.

the wind was blowing in their direction so all the smoke and chemicals they fired into the air is blowing back at them and not the protesters.

We need no further proof that the CIA is managing this.

Call in the Drones!

“Terrorist Americans rioting! Obama calls in US military drone strike against US terrorists”

Now THAT would get him so of those Tea Party voters he so desperately wants and keeps appealing to.

The thug-cops and the media blackout will ultimately fail.

Nah. Even that will never get a ‘bagger to vote for a black man.

Is it an overstatement that ALL violence at Occupies is by police.

Like Ruby Ridge and Waco.

I am no defender of reich wing groups, but am definitely against all govt violence, of which there is no shortage.

This is DISGUSTING! Where is obama on this? What happened to our right to peacefully protest, what happened to free speech? obama is a horrible man with no integrity, a man who is only interested in himself and his pursuit of power and money; a fraud who was marketed to the American people, a liar. I don’t know how anyone can support him.

Good thing.

Wouldn’t want to vote for either violent producing party.

The reason why I brought up Ruby Ridge and Waco above is bc the PTB use of violence against people who are no threats is an ongoing violation on all 99ers.

Meanwhile, President Zero is hiding behind his desk in the Oval Office watching the live feed and wacking his pud.

Yep. In the case of Waco at least, the ATF was hamming it up for television cameras and those people paid with their lives.

Not defending the events at Waco, but it is important to point out that Occupy is not a cult.

Yes, yes and I was not comparing the two. Clearly I was discussing historical overreactions by police.

Unlawful assembly unilaterality declared. Your demockracy at work.

Janet Reno says the compound at Waco was attacked to protect the health and safety of the people inside.

Reno has cited a number of factors to explain why she endorsed the tear-gas plan. She has said that she had concluded that negotiations with the Branch Davidians were indefinitely stalemated, that the FBI’s hostage rescue team on duty at Waco was becoming fatigued, that the security perimeter established by the FBI around the compound was endangered and that the children inside the compound were at risk because of deteriorating sanitary conditions and the potential for sexual and physical abuse.

On edit: there’s no health and safety problem when they’re all dead.

Pointing out that Waco is the cult you hate to love.

It doesn’t matter that they were a cult. They were doing no harm to U.S.ians. If they were doing the harm to women & children that USG alleged, that was a matter for the courts to decide, not a matter for universal slaughter.

Yeah yeah yeah. And Janet Reno is an asshole.

There was no problem to general public with BD. Coulda waited them out for decades with no loss of life.

But you know that.

Yep. Not much “unhealthier” than trigger happy cops and arsonists in tanks.

In a way, it seems the US Government has decided the American people are the enemy.

All religions are cults. What’s your point?

Hey everybody – I was there for the first half of the day and maybe I’ll write a diary about it later. For now you know as much as I do since I’m just watching Spencer ‘splain it all to us. The guy who you referenced above, Kevin, is Khalid Shakur. Khalid has been arrested multiple times and he’s definitely a target. I am not surprised by what’s happening right now – to be honest, the entire day has unfolded just exactly as I had anticipated. I have very mixed feelings – there are pros and there are Quans, as we say.

Nah. Just 99% of us….

Ding.

Internal dissent is MUCH more dangerous to PTB than anything outside.

Glad you finally recognized that the people are the enemy.

On edit: Everything USG does is to suppress internal dissent. Right or left. There is NO external threat to U.S.

Of course I know that. Do you remember that Waco happened within days after the first WTC bombing? Hmm…

The feeling’s mutual.

Let’s go back to the original point of the direct action. The City of Oakland has a building. That building is vacant. Occupy Oakland would like to do things to benefit the city out of an office in that building. The direct action was putting an unused public asset to use, and they are the public. The City of Oakland (the California-chartered municipal corporation) behaves like a private owner, like a private corporation and calls the police to prevent a vacant building from being used for civic purposes.

That is the key point. The privatization of public assets and the management of public assets as if they are private.

Sticking more pins in your Commander-in-Chief Zero zombie doll seems to be a little off-topic in this case.

There is national coordination among cities and police forces going on, but it doesn’t have to involve the White House at all. The 1% really doesn’t depend on it for routine work.

It’s time to focus on what’s going on where. Police chiefs are coordinating through IACP and PERF. Mayor are coordination through the United States Conference of Mayors. The FBI is the major federal agency involved. There has been coordination with the Coast Guard and with the DHS Federal Protective Services (who are concerned about protection of federal buildings, such as federal court houses and Federal Reserve bank buildings). FPS falls under the National Protection and Programs Directorate of DHS administered by Rand Beers.

The National Protection and Programs Directorate:

collaborates with all levels of government, the private sector, non-government organizations, and international bodies to prevent, respond to, and mitigate threats to U.S. national security from acts of terrorism, natural disasters, and other catastrophic events.

That be as it may, the FBI works with police forces on a daily basis for record searches, information coordination, training, and other functions. And the FBI, do not forget, still operates the way J. Edgar Hoover set it up.

Meanwhile, all the right-wingers that continually occupy the SF Kronkinle’s website are creaming their jeans:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/comments/view?f=/c/a/2012/01/28/BASI1N00ER.DTL

No, I don’t remember that. Thanks for the reminder.

My point is that I do not like cults. They destroy the soul.

What’s yours?

Think I understand what you are saying.

Think I don’t understand what you are recommending.

I don’t know how anyone can support him.

Want to buy a sign?

Indeed. But now we live in this era of Drone Wars. (Watch out, US military: drones and robots will be replacing you, eliminating this government-sponsored stimulus employment package, so back to the 99% the lot of you. And good luck!)

But undeclared wars, wars we’ve never discussed or debated, as a nation–is this where we are? Yep.

Unarmed college kids get pepper-sprayed because we’re afraid of terrorists…or somesuch. I don’t think most Americans are afraid post 9/11. But the national-security state has made the most of it, and it defines our politics.

Thanks. I needed that.

It’s ok. We’re all in this together I guess.

You’re right. Humor is last best hope of preserving sanity.

IMHO, this was a noble idea that lacked proper planning. Many of us were hoping it wasn’t going to be Kaiser Auditorium, which is in the midst of a massive construction site and surrounded by a chainlink fence. I think we need a lot more discipline to pull off such an action and hopefully we learned some lessons today. Which is not to say that OPD didn’t overreact; they always do. The Occupy Oakland Move-In group released a really stupid and provocative Open Letter to Mayor Quan, OPD and the City of Oakland a couple of days ago that said we “would make their lives miserable” if they interfered with our building takeover. It contained ridiculous threats like OO would blockade the airport. A lot of us were dismayed because the letter was so juvenile and took away from what could have been a serious message about unused buildings, homelessness, etc. That provocation pretty much guaranteed the response you are seeing from OPD tonight.

The Oakland cops are bringing a tank in!

Thanks Kevin

Are you there or are you seeing that on livestream?

I don’t think my government has my best interests at heart. And I believe, most Americans feel the same way. (Retail politics might reflect this later.)

Livestream via Occupy Portland.

Also having a Facebook conversation and just reposted this classic gem: The American Dream.

Who says three open browsers is too much!

You may be sure that USG has your worst interests at heart.

Tactical discipline is extremely hard to get out of horizontal decision-making if there are particularly willful people who are romanticizing what is a difficult bit of politics. Telegraphing you tactics and schedule is usually not a great idea and taunting rarely helps; it undercuts your media teams activities.

There are a lot of juvenile actions in various local Occupy movements. But then, most of US politics for the past decade an a half has has been characterized by a juvenile style.

This type of direct action is complex in the scientific-technical sense of “riding the edges of chaos and complete randomness”. Therefore it is unpredictable when juvenile tactics occasionally result in actual change, as sometimes happens.

The Iowa Caucus showed that there isn’t going to be the sort of traditional retail politics in which candidates actually listened to voters instead of messaging them. The whole deal with Occupy’s mic-checks is demonstrating that politicians of all stripes are messaging and not listening. The classic turnoff was Obama’s “You had your turn. Now it’s mine.”

The major task between now and June is letting politicians know that that is no longer acceptable.

More stuff going on at Oakland City Hall here: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/oaktownpirate

Perhaps I am wrong but I think two of the real saving graces of Occupy are it’s naive openness and bold, sometimes stupid, courage.

I mostly agree with that – except that OO has to cope with the constant misinformation that the City spews out about how much they’re spending on us and what terrorists we are and yada yada yada. So when we create a big spectacle it’s nice if it actually accomplishes something.

The other thing is that there really are visiting hooligans who love to come to Oakland for the weekend and break shit whenever there’s an opportunity. It’s a stereotype but it’s also true. I saw a whole bunch of black masked faces that I did not recognize today.

According to an interview by ustreamer OaktownPirate, Susie Cagle was released because she had press credentials.

Hmmmmm, did’ja really expect anything else? I mean in terms of the propaganda from the corporate media and PTB?

As far as the black bloc kids I have two competing observations that are a conundrum. First, I know they are infiltrated by the cops and agent-provocateurs that forment mayhem, but also many of them are runaways from terrible homes trying to create an quasi-egalitarian, radically anti-capitalist, and physically safe envmnt for themselves.

Occupy is in a messy phase of growth right now. We do have momentum, we also have resilience and creativity, and up here in PDX we also try and have fun. Pushing boundaries is a part of all Occupies I know of.

Early on I did some calcs. If the stats were accurately reported, Oakland has like 20% (or something to that effect) of cops/pops vs. NYC. Think that somewhere in between might be optimal, but it does seem like Oakland cops are vastly undermanned, with all the implications.

I’m learning about black bloc; I didn’t even know that phrase three months ago. There were times earlier today when we could have overpowered the police if those who were dressed as black bloc and who were carrying shields and so on had actually done what they boast about doing all the time. My opinion is that the state should not be the sole source of power and that the black bloc can be an incredible tool against state oppression. It would have been scary as hell and ultimately the police would have gotten the upper hand, but if we’re going to do this, we need to play to win. I want kids to be radicalized; it’s long past due. I just don’t want to put my own safety in the hands of Anarchist Barbie and Ken.

They never have any trouble amassing large numbers of cops to deal with OO, even when an action is expected to be peaceful. And OPD has spent untold amounts of money harassing a core group of about a dozen people at the plaza for the past few months. I personally think we need fewer cops, not more; they are oppressors for the state. If they were keeping the working class safe in our neighborhoods, we wouldn’t have murders every few days in Oakland.

So, where do we go next? This coming Weds, the 1st, OccupyPortland is going to Salem to Occupy the Legislature, we are taking on the ALEC bills that are being pushed in the evenly divided Oregon House. There may be other more creative stuff too.

We also had a cop melee a few nights ago here in Portland on the Tahrir Sq. anniversary march that the cops instigated and four, I believe, were arrested on jaywalking charges. We are organizing around numerous issues and the establishment pols are trying to co-opt us. Fascinating stuff!

Oaktown is rocking though, and you are being watched around the world. Trust yourselves!

I’m recommending that critical thought be directed at the details of what’s going on rather that what amount to cheap shots and juvenile namecalling. It is abundantly clear that we have a political-economic crisis that affects almost every institution at every level of US governance. It is clear to some politicians as well; not all retirements are because they don’t think they can win. Some are in pure frustration at what politics has become.

A critical part of the problem are those institutions that coordinated and lobbied for the interests of various constituencies. The ones that serve the private sector are obvious. But there are those that serve various public sector institutions that can misbehave as badly as ALEC or API or AHIP. One of those in the case of the Occupy movement is the Police Executive Research Forum (PERF) and the International Association of Chiefs of Police. These are controlled by their members, the local police chiefs.

At this point, my recommendation for the best use of comments would be to “document the atrocities”. There is a lot going on at the local level all over the country (and internationally as well). The Occupy movement has provided an audience to a bunch of new web sites, blogs, livestreams, Twitter streams, Facebook streams, and other online media. A lot of this new media, some web media, some social media do a better job of reporting and fact-checking local news than does the local branches of the Wall Street Media. For example, Alison McKinney’s and Susie Cagle’s reporting, linked from their Tweets has been a source of information on the Occupy movement in general and in Oakland in particular. Many of the Occupy Twitter accounts link to sites and YouTubes that one might not be familiar with. A link from the Occupy Appleton Twitter stream to a YouTube video first raised the possibility that Ron Paul supporters were (and still are) among the groups participating in the Occupy movement and general assemblies. An Occupy Columbia SC livestream of a general assembly showed how one Tea Party member pitched his movement as aligning with Occupy Columbia in a open mic stack at a general assembly.

There is so much out there and so much to be done that it seems foolish to waste bandwidth saying the same things over and over to people who fundamentally agree. Or to waste time with ad hominem attacks.

A young girl who’s a street medic is being put on a stretcher at City Hall; she was struck by a cop with a baton – Officer 119, they’re saying.

I just watched KRON 4 News and it was laughable how wrong they got this entire story. And of course the focus was on three cops with minor injuries. The reporter said that occupiers broke into the YMCA, with no explanation whatsoever. What actually happened is that the protestors were kettled right in front of the Y and they ran inside in an attempt to get out the back door and escape arrest. But I am sure that headlines tomorrow will have OO breaking into the YMCA as part of our evil plot against the 1%.

Yes, we’re at the forefront for better or worse. Good luck in Portland – sounds like you have some great stuff planned. Occupy Everywhere, All the Time!

Yes, but there is a fine line of discipline that must occur if change is to occur. And part of that has to do with increasing the number of people who participate in the movement and expand their sphere of fearlessness. Too many rash actions reduce numbers; too few cause the impact to weaken. Occupy Oakland has been remarkably skillful in getting an increase in numbers as a result of their actions leading up to the Occupy the Ports action. To make an action like today’s stick, Occupy Oakland needed greater numbers of occupiers. And very strong tactical discipline that could shut down potential provocateurs.

Sometime soon, some local Occupy movement will succeed in occupying a vacant public building – school, library, recreation center and restore it to a productive use. That one event transforms the movement in the eyes of the public. That event is also what the 1% is trying mightily to prevent.

Sure, if you predicate American consumption models on Western european revolutionary traditions…even including the romantic fetishism of the working class, but I am unconvinced. I think this global movement is something else, something deeper and more entwined with some evolutionary RNA sequence or mitochondrial supernova burst. I do.

I do agree, also, that taking a physical landmark may be productive…but holding it? For what purpose? For the simulacrum, the Kadashians and Gingriches in their shadow tubes?

Currently I am having a difficult time swallowing the idea that an alliance with the proto-fascist Tea Party is a good idea (talk about political hangovers!) Evenso, with a climate change tsunami bucking on the horizon all I can say is that 2012 will be a year unlike others, and hopefully one we can all look back upon with a sense of knowing that we gave a good fight against the tyranny of the present unfolding, one perhaps more like the oceans rhythmic and unstoppable waves dismantling an ugly cruise ship than a tired and predictable militarist strategy.

Re: apple pie @ 58 – the target wasn’t just a physical landmark, but an unused abandoned building. In a rich country, where many are homeless, what is the point of having abandoned buildings? Occupy oakland was going to use this building, much more effectively than the municipal government would have.

Forgot to ask – which occupy group is talking about ‘alliances’ with the tea party? Not in seattle. No one talks about the TP let alone even thinks that’s a relevant engine for the change we seek.

Yes, definitely. I was responding to the idea that the tactic was the movement, and I do not think it is. I think it is more than that.

This has been around for awhile. Not wanting to quote anyone but it seems to me that in rural areas there is a sense of commonality, perhaps just because they are neighbors of Occupy people. I tend to speak against an alliance any chance I get. Everyone I talk to is against a formal alliance with TP leaders, but many seem open to individual contacts…

How is Seattle doing these days?

Glad to see Oakland is still kicking it!

ALEC is (finally) getting a lot of attention across the country. In Santa Fe, they had a legislator’s dinner this week and were called out by Occupy. There is still a lot of back and forth about the event, with some legislators calling Occupy a “terrorist” group because some papers were thrown, but there is film of it, and I think the legislators have over-reacted. As many have pointed out, ALEC’s agenda is truly inhumane, so we will see where this goes.

Of course the media are wont to report the legislators’ perspectives, so that is what people are talking about.

Occupy Everywhere, all the time! Thanks for being there hotflashcarol and everyone else!

Riot police are confronting and surrounding marchers in Portland right now.

Okay. still waiting on negotiations between egt and ilwu union of longview, wa. If it falls through, seattle, portland, and anyone in between will descend into longview to shut that port down.

That’s on the burner for now.

Local 21 still has to vote, rumor was that Local 19 was conflicted on the EGT action.

We need to have a regional meeting. Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, Tricities, maybe Boise, and so on.

Myself, and many others agree a regional meeting is a great idea. At the least, regional coordination.

There’s conflict, likely, on the suspicion that EGT is negotiating in bad faith.

There are hella people from Oakland hoping to caravan to Longview if/when that’s necessary.

Really good point.

I thought a few die hards in oakland would make it, but hella people is awesome to hear! The only thing is that there’s not a lot of warning when that ship will dock. Keep on hearing anywhere from a few hours to a few days notice.

Some alliances are going to be necessary to build numbers and increase power to fight the plutocracy. In Egypt, the secular students and the MB stood together to rout Mubarak but (rightfully) ran against each other in the elections. The same can happen with the Ron Paulers and Occupy. I have seen Ron Paul signs at occupy, and I’m fine with it.

PDX is ready to house people for the Longview action when and if it takes place.

For more info this struggle go here.

Sorry ysn, but Ron Paul and his offspring give me the creeps. As do fundamentalists the world over.

I don’t know exactly how many people will make it but there are meetings about it here; people do know that it might happen at a moment’s notice. I haven’t personally been to these meetings but they are announced at most GAs. More info here:

http://occupyoakland.org/2012/01/occupy-oakland-caravan-to-longview-preparation-meeting/

http://occupyoakland.org/2012/01/more-on-longview-action-and-egt/

http://www.occupytheegt.org/

The alliances we should seek are with the working class. Not protofascist associations like the tea party.

Our alliances should be with nonunion and union workers alike, students, and anyone else that is disenfranchised due to the psychotic socio-economic policies of the 1%.

Also, be sure to challenge the Ron Paul supporters on their plans for a way forward. We are all looking toward dismantling the power structures of the 1%, but I’m not going to support throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

HUZZAH!

There is some common ground between the libertarian right and progressives that it would be beneficial to recognize. We are entering an era of post-polarization where the best chance of ending corporate rule is to work with the very people the elites have mindfully pitted against us. Where the elites seek to divide us, that is the point at which we will find the most power. We don’t have to embrace every last idea of the radical right, we just need to work with them to move past plutocracy so that we can sort out our different philosophies in a functioning democracy. Our biggest problem is not the right, it’s the plutocrats.

In Argentina pensions were used for the general budget, but I
don’t think to cover banks’ slap on the wrist for fraud.

What is that, though, but sheer scorn for people not themselves?

http://goo.gl/lLbja

I don’t know. Maybe just suggest they just use the OPD’s pensions?

Actually, they have apparently voted unanimously to accept the contract:

http://my.firedoglake.com/wendydavis/2012/01/27/crisis-averted-obama-set-to-use-coast-guard-against-ilwu-in-longview-wa/

I made the same case here, yellowsnapdragon. I’ll admit that it’s frustrating that the Readers Diaries here seem to be so off the radar of those who comment only on the Mother Ship.

You might have enjoyed the discussion; it went pretty well, considering the nature of topic, and the often reflexive nature of the push-back.

http://my.firedoglake.com/wendydavis/2012/01/22/ows-and-forging-common-cause-with-tea-people-and-libertarians/

The global movement is indeed something else that draws of a variety of traditions of nonviolent protest and resistance. My analysis is that a lot of the juvenile behavior comes from Les Mis 1848 fetishism and from US sports culture. Those are a small number of the movement but can create effects that result in harm to the movement by promising actions that the movement has little capability of delivering at that point. And because it is juvenile in tone, the “OK kids, you’ve had your fun now go home” response of the authorities has more resonance in the US.

For their part, the NYPD and OPD especially have a virulent form of the “zero-tolerance” law enforcement philosophy that Malcolm Gladwell described in The Tipping Point and that Rudy Giuliani claimed credit for lowering New York’s crime rate.

I’m with you guys, it’s just foolish to reflexively turn up our noses against any alliance possibilities. Wendy, you asked me some time ago to help you re DW Bartoo. A propos of that, he resurfaced in the last couple of days, and I let him know you were looking for him. Check the later comments from Southern Dragon’s Friday Diner thread if you want to get more details.

Capitalism is done for, like it or not. I suggest everyone seriously consider alternate options. You have a finite planet, and the system people laud in this country is the imperative of endless growth. It’s impossible. Capitalism must die. It is an inevitability. Part of the reason capitalism sucks is because of it’s hierarchical nature, the top down I tell you what to believe and you better believe it. That model is dead. It’s a 20th century model. We are living in the 21st century.

The horizontal methods of Occupy is revolutionary. Oilbummer and the PTB know this. They are mortified by it. And rightly so. Their whole reason for being is being judged and critiqued. If people catch on, they have no reason to exist.

What do you know about anarchism? Just asking.

Thanks, RC; I’ll check the details. I was tickled witless that he showed up on my Common Cause diary. A few days later I’d seen him post elsewhere; so nice that he’s back. ;o)

I hate when I find I am behind the times lol. Just read your diary, excellent work, soliciting excellent comments, seems like no more comments accepted? or I would have rec’d it. You know I am one of those making your argument, and getting my ass kicked for it. That’s fine, I have a very durable ass. AND, you already lured DW out of the mists!!! So, all that’s left is to say, hugs and love to you. ON EDIT:Just went back and took another look, apparently can still recommend your diary, so I did. Still seems like no more comments possible, but maybe I’m just missing something. Seems like you got all the best people to show up lol. Except for the guy who sounds like an omelette.

It’s not merely reflexive, or reactionary. My distrust of TPers is based on their history and unswerving agenda of racism, sexism, imposition of theocracy, unaccountable militarism, and homophobia. It is also based on the facts that the TP are heavily funded by extreme right wing demagogues and oil men and allowed unfair media access for propaganda purposes. As it stands now the TPers seems to be lining up behind Gingrich, a sterling example of change for America. Of course, I am talking in generalities here. If we get specific and talk of smaller and more ‘Constitutional’ elements w/i the TP, such as the Libertarian’s than we are still left with an overwhelming paranoia, jingoism, and nativism that believes violence is not only an adequate response to dissent but a god-ordained right for white America.

Any alliance may gain a few of these Libertarians but it will also alienate whole segments of Occupy. In one sense, perhaps this unexpected consequence, this splintering and co-optation, may be just what the plutocrats want.

I know this issue can be an emotional one and will be debated over and over again this year (on FDL and elsewhere.) I Iook forward to dialoguing on it.

Maybe we should send the BlacBloc kids to live with the TPers? No, wait a minute they ran away from that patriarchy and spiritual death already.

I think we should side with the kids!

I’m sorry I missed your diary. Outstanding work.

Who would have thought in September that the most problematic part of the coalition of individuals in the Occupy movement would be folks like me, essentially yellow-dog Democrats since 1968? And how hard the Occupy movement would have to work to prove that they were not being co-opted by the Democratic Party in general or the Obama campaign in particular. There are Democrats in the Occupy movement who see Occupy movement as the only way to restore (or considering its tawdry history, create for the first time) a democratic Democratic Party. Which is to say, in a lot of places like the South the folks who are most receptive to the vision of the Occupy movement are those who are the offspring of marriage of the New Deal textile workers/farmers movement and the 1960s Civil Rights Movement. That is a subset of all Democratic Party folks, but it is there and has kept a progressive populist vision alive in a lot of areas where college-educated “progressives” are afraid to move. These folks have now had it with the corruption of government that has been allowed to metastasize over the past generation.

And those who participate in local Occupy movements have been willing to talk in general assemblies and work with the few grassroots Tea Party supporters or less few Ron Paul supporters who catch the vision or want to talk. The common ground seems to occur when folks grasp that the problem is not Wall Street alone or Washington alone but the Wall Street-K Street-Washington connection that implements the wishes of the 1%. The other common ground is that you don’t have to wait for government permission or funding in order to begin dealing with some basic local community issues.

While folks are going to have to put aside the culture wars issues aside as divisive in order to accomplish the necessary transformation, there needs to be some discussion about how that actually gets done. These are political wedge issues because they are emotion laden, and delay is taken as betrayal–personal betrayal either of perceived values or perceived dignity. It is easier said than done.

Just read your diary, and couldn’t agree with you more. Now to read the comments…

I’ll just make two points:

It was really nice having the regional gathering around the NH Primary. Wonderful to have people from Occupy Wall Street (the one in NYC) and Boston and Maine and lots of other locations around to exchange ideas and tactics and just get to know them while doing actions.

So whatever happens on the West Coast that gets the Occupiers in the same city, it should be worth it. The skirmish hardened folks and the less so. Less than ideal you may have to get to know one another right off the bat in the context of a skirmish (over the port).

Second thing:

I would distinguish the individuals who aligned with the Tea Party and those (Dick Armey and Koch and the bought media) who were the top-down funders and PR and bus renters. Same with individuals who support Ron Paul as against the top-down party structure and national campaign organization. Like applepie, I don’t trust the organizers for a second to have my interests at heart.

I think you can have a discussion with the individuals and find common ground. I had a discussion after one of the campaign events I went to with some Paul supporters and found that they are really up on their issues and can talk politics and solutions. Only a few of the solutions I agree with, but it’s a starting point. I think you would have the same with some of the economic frustrations that rank and file Tea Partiers have.

Whatever we can do in outreach to get the number of supporters closer to 99% of the population is a good idea.

Wendy you make some very good pts in your article.

I stand by my perceptions as well. I just wonder how much damage control we will have to do w/in Occupy if alliances are made. Individual contacts, such as MartyinNH mentions are fine, but the 99% must include people of color as well as white people who have already had enormous influence in charting the direction of our nation.

The individual folks who identify themselves as Tea Party in local Occupy general assemblies have not been total conformists to either the character of the various Tea Party organizations or the stereotypes. On the other hand, the Tea Party counter-protesters have been both.

I don’t think that Occupy has alliances with organizations except for a particular actions or working efforts. And those are between one or more specific general assemblies and one or more organizations work on the same issue. There is not going to be an alliance between Tea Party leaders and Occupy “leaders” because there is not a persistent set of Occupy leaders.

That is to say that a lot of the anxiety about prejudices and culture war agendas is likely misplaced. And the folks most manifesting the attitudes and advocating for the policies that worry you are the least likely to show up at a general assembly and he most likely to be counter-protesters, police informants, or provocateurs.

I a much more worried by all sorts of folks who are trying to push their agendas on Occupy (such as the Con-Con folks) by bypassing the local general assemblies and creating a national general assembly.

I think we should exclude from this discussion of alliances the TP peeps who are Koch funded, R party operatives. It’s the grassroots libertarian folks who we need to join.

Long Haired Hippy, I can’t really answer that in a sentence or two. I am reading all kinds of stuff recommended by people who identify as anarchists, especially anarcho-syndicalists. Anarchist is a word that gets thrown around in Oakland (and re Occupy in general) so much that it has become almost meaningless. I tend to use the word “hooligan” when I am talking about the trustafarian types who just want to mask up and fuck shit up under cover of a serious movement. Most of the anarchists I have met are a lot more strategic than that.

Latest report I have up at Dissenter: City of Oakland’s increasing hostility toward the Occupy movement

This is right on.

David Graeber may be the most respected and famous anarchist, though few may know him for that designation. ;o) He may be not the exact icon for the folks you’re on the ground with at OO.

http://theanarchistlibrary.org/HTML/David_Graeber__Are_You_An_Anarchist__The_Answer_May_Surprise_You_.html

Peoople choose themselves to be Occupy activists, IMO. I made the case for blacks choosing themselves when either Glenn Ford or Bruce Dixon called for Occupy to prove its relevance to the black community; that BAR author mentioned OWSNY protesting gentrification, for instance. I was so glad when there was an Occupy Harlem event recently, and plenty of anglos joined the action. You can read at their site about how crap the coverage and negative spin was, but it was a heartening start.

I’ve written foor diaries on the Tipping Points to mass uprising and revolution, and also have championed the idea of social gospel coming to the movement; when Occupy the Dream organized, with Dave DeGraw’s help, again, I was thrilled. Some say the ministers are still exhorting their flocks to vote for and give money to Obama; again: BAR has called them out for it.

We’ll see how it turns out. But even after the non-violent revolution, all of will need to be heard, considered, and allowed to participate in a new democracy. IMHO, of course. ;o)

Glad you liked, it, realitychecker, and love and hugs to you, too. ;o)

It was a very cool thread, and I admit I agonized over how to get it just right (foolish thought), and researched for a long time, wrote for a long time, la la la. I really wanted the thinking rather unimpeachable in the main, so it wouldn’t be open to wide interpretation, i.e.: that what i wrote was what I meant. Period.

But yes, ondelette didn’t care for my thinking, or what she reflexively believed I’d written… or something. But…she and I have had rows before; once I even said ‘let’s kiss and make up; I may have been mistaken, tra la la…’ Cool, looks as though we won’t be engaging much now. ;~)

Thanks to all the rest of you who took the time to read that diary; wish I had time to respond to you all now. RL is beckoning.

Oh: and I dunno when it happens, but at some point reader diaries are closed to comment. The common cause one got enough rec’s to come out of diary death and walk onto the rec’d list…like a zombie.

Love to you all, wd.

The true (not the Koch Bros) Tea Partiers and the Ron Paulites want, at their essence, clean govt and rule of law, and so do we. That is the core value around which an alliance can be formed. I understand all the arguments against, but they all ignore a basic truth: We are getting our asses kicked now, and we, progressives, are WAY too small in numbers to win against the PTB. We must have an alliance to increase our aggregate power. AFTER the PTB are taken down, we can work out all the other issues in an atmosphere that is not the poisoned one we are stuck in now.

I believe ondolette is a male. Now he’ll really be mad at you lol. BTW, I always think of him as the “sharp-elbow guy,” cuz that always seems to be his sole mode of communication.

As they say: Good Grief. You may freaking be right. For a year and a half I went with the mental image of her avatar photo, which is gone now. Srsly. I just went to this thread where her comments are very well-represented (ahem).

I almost got on the thread, not just because I agreed with her, but I think the author is full of shit, if I may say so. ;o) I’ve blogged along side him, and know him to paint all Tea People, Southerners, other whole swathes of groups as: racists. I’m very judicious in using terms like that, as there are so many others that are more nuanced, and maybe more likely correct. I wasn’t sure I wanted to call him out on it; maybe I should have; I dunno.

But: from what I read about her job history, you may be right that she’s a he. I looked far, because my life has been full of skills and employment that are considered masculine, in the main. Outdoor maintenance, construction worker, carpenter, rock layer, etc. So…I hate to jump to conclusions about gender and ‘mechanic’ and ‘gas pumper’, ya see, but…. ;o)

Sure wish the avatar photo were there; I remember a round face, short grey curly hair, no glasses…but good grief, ya got me pinging now, rifling through sooo many comments of his/hers. ;o)

http://my.firedoglake.com/cmaukonen/2012/01/27/a-guide-to-the-white-trash-planet-for-urban-liberals/

Erm…uh…are you female, lol?

Bingo and +++. ;o)

Not excusing what the cops did, but did you know like other 99%, officer’s homes are under water or they may have lost their homes? Big deal you say or they should join us? I agree, but now that you know this as does Jean Quan and the chief, but what a great way to blackmail cops into violating our civil rights by telling them what to do or get fired because of a CUBO (Conduct UnBecoming an Officer) because of dereliction of duty. And you know cops are generally conservative, but because of: (http://bit.ly/xbvQLq), you know why they can’t form an opinion outside of the conservative box.

I recall one snide comment he made where he explicitly ID’d himself as male, and defined the French word “ondolette” to show how stupid anybody was to assume he was female lol. I am male, but with a well-developed feminine side, I think.

Yes, but will it open any deaf ears?

Well, shut my mouth, darlin’. He’s a she; and so are thee.

Lemme know.

Love to you, even though… ;o)

We will continue to make the case; it’s all we can do. If folks are so blind they cannot see what’s in all of our best interests, we will conduct the democracy movement without them.

The end. ;o)

Sleep well, my new friend.