
Flickr Photo: Charles McCain
(update below)
Four missiles struck a village in South Waziristan in Pakistan on Sunday morning and killed ten “suspected militants,” who had gathered at a funeral to mourn the death of “two fighters” killed in a drone strike just the day before. At least, that is what the Associated Press and other media outlets are reporting.
Here is the story reported by the AP:
Ten more people have been killed by a US drone strike against suspected militants in Pakistan, with the aircraft firing its missiles into a gathering mourning one of two fighters killed in a similar atttack the previous day.
Two Pakistani intelligence officials say four missiles were fired at the village of Mana Raghzai in South Waziristan near the border with Afghanistan on Sunday morning.
At the time of the attack, suspected militants had gathered to offer condolences to the brother of a militant commander killed during another US unmanned drone attack on Saturday. The brother was one of those who died in the Sunday morning attack. The Pakistani officials said two of the dead were foreigners and the rest were Pakistani.
One can accept that this strike on a funeral (which on its own poses a set of moral issues) actually killed “militants,” “suspected militants,” “fighters,” “terrorists,” or whatever term one wants to use to describe really bad dudes who hate America and just might be planning attacks against the US—They can accept it is righteous and just if one believes the two fighters being mourned were in fact really bad dudes.
That is how the strike yesterday was reported by the AP:
An American drone fired two missiles at a motorbike in northwest Pakistan on Saturday, killing two suspected militants, officials said, as the U.S. pushed on with its drone campaign despite repeated Pakistani protests. [emphasis added]
But, The Bureau of Investigative Journalism’s Chris Woods, who has done extraordinary work analyzing and cataloging reports on US drone strikes, sent an email to Salon blogger Glenn Greenwald that suggested the motorbike may have been “accidentally hit.” It likely involved civilian deaths.
This leaves open the distinct possibility that the people being mourned weren’t in fact the “terrorists” that the US government would claim were killed and the people mourning them may not have been people, who were also “terrorists.” It also points to a trend in US drone strikes that involves targeting funerals. (Woods has helped to uncover and highlight this in his work.)
As Salon blogger Glenn Greenwald stated in a post yesterday:
…If drone strikes kill nobody other than “militants,” then very few people will even think about opposing them (and that’s independent of the fact that the word “militant” is a wildly ambiguous term — militant about what? — though it is clearly designed (when combined with “Pakistan”) to evoke images of those who attacked the World Trade Center). Debate-suppression is not just the effect but the intent of this propaganda: like all propaganda, it is designed to deceive the citizenry in order to compel acquiescence to government conduct.
So, here we have twelve people who are dead. Their names are unknown. They are killed in an area of Pakistan largely closed off to journalists. The names of the victims will go unreported because officials know that if victims are able to get their stories to the media they will undermine drone policy and the larger “war on terror.” (Recall, when Abdulrahman Al-Awlaki, the 16-year-old of Anwar Al-Awlaki, was executed in a drone strike, media reported, “Abdulrahman was five years older than his actual age, had been militant like his father and, that a high-value Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) target was also among the dead.” This was all incorrect.)
Senior officials in both Pakistan and the US have a policy of not talking to media about strikes. Journalists and news media organizations, however, regularly contact officials. So, in Pakistan (and other countries like Yemen), “senior officials” give people the bare minimum amount of information necessary to report a story. That essentially means the press and public gets a kind of police blotter report. It is what those engaged in the “war on terrorism” claim happened. The report (not surprisingly) covers up any deficiency in the decision-making that went in to choosing to launch the attack in the first place. It does not typically report when an attack didn’t transpire as planned.
Despite all this, the dead are reported “militants” or “suspected militants” and they are still reported as such, even though in the aftermath of a major New York Times feature story the world now knows that “all military-age males in a strike zone” are considered “combatants” unless “there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent.” This means who the US is killing exactly is contested and hard to verify.
But it isn’t just that drone strikes are reported individually one after the other without really questioning whether the people killed are, in fact, even “suspected militants.” As the recent drone strike in Pakistan demonstrates, media organizations like the AP rely on previous reporting that essentially amounts to propaganda for the “war on terror” in order to report on the latest drone attacks. This guarantees the official story of those attacks will be wrong or, at best, not the full story of what happened.
Update
The Pakistan-based Dawn has a report on the strike highlighted here that indicates “one of the commanders killed in the attack was identified as Ghulam Khan belonging to the Maulvi Nazir group.” Maulvi Nazir is believed to be a Taliban faction based in Waziristan. It is, therefore, a main group the US government is targeting in the “war on terrorism.” This just serves as a reminder that the drone war in Pakistan is an extension of the war in Afghanistan.
There have been attempts at negotiating with the Taliban. As recently as the NATO summit in Chicago, it was seen as something that should continue to be considered. Of course, how can one expect negotiations with a group that knows it has members on your kill list to go well? It should come as no surprise that negotiations have not gone so well.
The US now is publicly decreasing the resources it invests in Afghanistan. Troops will be withdrawn. Whether the Obama administration will abandon its plans against the Taliban seems unclear because the administration now has drone warfare it can use in both Afghanistan and Pakistan. That will undoubtedly keep the Afghanistan war going and continue to perpetuate terrorism violence in both countries.
Finally, this seems similar to what happened to Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud. From the New York Times story published on May 29:
…in August 2009, the C.I.A. director, Leon E. Panetta, told Mr. Brennan that the agency had Mr. Mehsud in its sights. But taking out the Pakistani Taliban leader, Mr. Panetta warned, did not meet Mr. Obama’s standard of “near certainty” of no innocents being killed. In fact, a strike would certainly result in such deaths: he was with his wife at his in-laws’ home. “Many times,” General Jones said, in similar circumstances, “at the 11th hour we waved off a mission simply because the target had people around them and we were able to loiter on station until they didn’t.” But not this time. Mr. Obama, through Mr. Brennan, told the C.I.A. to take the shot, and Mr. Mehsud was killed, along with his wife and, by some reports, other family members as well, said a senior intelligence official…
Obama or Brennan likely knew there were people surrounding Ghulam Khan. He weighed the decision and decided to take out Khan just like he chose to take out Mehsud. The people around him, who were mourning the loss of Khan’s brother, were insignificant. And this is why it is easy and reasonable to call this policy murderous.
The administration knew people would be killed at this funeral. They were willing to let them become—Oh, what’s that imperial-sounding phrase that conditions people to not feel like their government is committing crimes? Right, collateral damage. In order to get Khan, it was okay to get the nine other people.



83 Comments

Hey, Kevin, it’s only twelve. That’s a dozen, right? Like eggs. Makes me think of eggs. Eggs are cheap, right? (Learned everything I know from TBogg.)
This is madness on madness, sacrilege piled upon horror.
Now, the mothers of ‘militants’ are targeted.
Now the little brothers and sisters of ‘militants’ are targeted.
Now clerics conducting funerals are targeted.
Who is the terrorist?
That there are still people who think this conduct is ok, let alone self described “liberals”, is utterly revolting to me. I don’t care if it was Abraham Lincoln or George Washington himself ordering these assassinations–I’d still expect impeachment hearings to begin immediately. But that won’t happen–because “liberals” have no morality. They have no ethics. They don’t have the guts to call a murderer a murderer. Pathetic losers.
John Brennan, Obama explainer, May 1:
“First and foremost, the individual must be a legitimate target under the law. . .For example, when considering lethal force we ask ourselves whether the individual poses a significant threat to U.S. interests. . . .And what do we mean when we say significant threat? I am not referring to some hypothetical threat, the mere possibility that a member of al-Qaida might try to attack us at some point in the future. A significant threat might be posed by an individual who is an operational leader of al-Qaida or one of its associated forces. Or perhaps the individual is himself an operative, in the midst of actually training for, or planning to carry out attacks against U.S. persons and interests. Or perhaps the individual possesses unique operational skills that are being leveraged in a planned attack. The purpose of a strike against a particular individual is to stop him before he can carry out his attack and kill innocents. The purpose is to disrupt his plans and his plots before they come to fruition.”
People killed because they are suspected of being militant?!
Increasingly it seems that “terrorist” is defined as “anyone the US government arrests domestically or kills overseas.”
That is not just worrisome morality, it is counterproductive to its stated intent.
And I’m not sure that that makes the US government the “terrorist” because the response is not fear of the US but anger.
I am just so thrilled that this is starting to get some press. Thanks, Kevin, for all you and your compatriots are doing on these issues.
Doesn’t Assad in Syria and Al Quaida in general attack funerals? And now the U.S. does? So, what’s the difference? Oh, the U.S. is the Good Guys. They keep telling everyone that anyway. Got to remember that.
For TBogg:
from Clive Stafford Smith in The Guardian
I’m pretty sure paying bounties is what landed so many innocent men in Guantanamo. Now we just murder them. That posthumous exoneration plan is gonna work out just great.
You’re welcome. It’s been covered here for months now and will continue to receive coverage especially because Obama is up for reelection and it has become part of the bipartisan national security consensus in government.
putrid joke of the last decade “They hate us for our freedoms”
The USA is a giant drunken oaf, walking around the world village, stomping , kicking and beating little people to death with a huge club.
I appreciate your eloquence.
When was the last time anyone read a news article that said the US captured, detained, or arrested “suspected militants,” “enemy combatants,” or “terrorists?” It appears to me we’ve opted for killing rather than deal with the legal complications we’ve come to experience with Gitmo. How soon before we experience blowback in regard to our “kill and take no prisoners” policy?
Oh, I know it! I have been a lurker here for years.
Y’all are doing great work.
Tbag would vote and encourage you to vote for Obama even if he was running around shopping malls slashing random shoppers with razor blades.
His is the one blog I avoid at FDL because he still seems to be stuck in this left/right paradigm, when most of the rest here seemed to have awakened to the 1% vs 99% frame.
Democrats: part of the problem.
By admitting that a militant combatant is any male of military age in a strike zone, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent, President Obama has admitted to a policy that is indistinguishable from “Kill them all and let God sort them out.”
Especially, when everyone at a funeral is targeted and slaughtered.
Moreover, far too many women and children have been slaughtered in these attacks to believe that their deaths are attributable to mere accident.
Not only does he not deserve a single vote, he deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison for ordering others to commit war crimes.
I cannot and will not vote for such a man, ever.
Join me others in Voting Green change has to start somewhere.
If there’s anything more absolutely depraved than killing mourners at a funeral for somebody else we killed, I can’t think of what it is.
This country’s descent into pure murderous madness goes faster and faster. I sure as hell don’t defend Obama, but anybody who thinks the man could put even a slight dent in this monster without being JFK’d is dreaming and living in an America that hasn’t existed at least since the 2k coup.
Btw, do all these drone bombs incorporate depleted uranium? I assume we’re putting that cherry on top of everything now too. Why merely kill, when you can add mutagenic horror and misery that will last a thousand generations?
I’m just out of words for what a failed, failed species we are. Time to go sit on the porch and drink a beer and look at the birds and sky. I’m so glad my allotted time in this madhouse is more over than not.
Right. Get back to me when to me when The Glorious People’s Progressive Party wins an election outside of co-chair of their local community’s ad hoc recycling committee.
When the TSA started insisting on naked pictures or groping our junk in order to allow people to fly, I started asking my frequent flyer friends what it would take for them to give up flying. That is, what would the TSA have to do that would be so egregious that it would no longer be worth the convenience of getting on a commercial flight. My question was met with deafening silence.
In a similar vein, I suspect that if you asked Obama supporters what he would have to do to lose their support, a deafening silence would ensue, possibly followed by a a few pitiful bleats of “but…but…but…Romney”.
Yeah, I’m done with the terrorism of both parties. I got over our self-induced national fear factor years ago. I’ll vote if only to make a public record of not-Republican, not-Democrat.
No comment on the bounty thing then? Pity.
Drone-fired rockets are another way to kill suspects.
from the archives:
ISAF Joint Command Evening Operational Update March 18, 2011
ISAF Joint Command – Afghanistan
2011-03-S-063
For Immediate Release
KABUL, Afghanistan (March 18, 2011) – Afghan National Security and International Security Assistance Forces killed several suspected insurgents during a combined operation to detain a known insurgent leader in Nahr-e Saraj district, Helmand province, today.
Obama is cool with this and also accepts the new definition of “terrorist”: At least in foreign countries, a terrorist is any male of militarty age who lives in the vicinity of terrorists. If they weren’t terrorists, they would have become refugees and fled…somewhere. Or something.
See? Simple.
Now, when this definition moves onshore, will Obama et al begin drone killing whole neighborhoods? Wellll…not right away. But what’s been done “in our name” overseas does seem to come to our shores.
(Coming to a neighborhood near you…sometime. Except for the enclaves of the UberWealthy.)
Book Salon up with Gar Alperovitz’s America Beyond Capitalism: Reclaiming Our Wealth, Our Liberty, and Our Democracy hosted by Mike Konczal
Obama’s foreword to the National Security Strategy: “In all that we do, we will advocate for and advance the basic rights upon which our Nation was founded, and which peoples of every race and region have made their own.”
and in the Strategy:
“Legal Aspects of Countering Terrorism: The increased risk of terrorism necessitates a capacity to detain and interrogate suspected violent extremists, but that framework must align with our laws to be effective and sustainable. When we are able, we will prosecute terrorists in Federal courts or in reformed military commissions that are fair, legitimate, and effective. For detainees who cannot be prosecuted—but pose a danger to the American people—we must have clear, defensible, and lawful standards. We must have fair procedures and a thorough process of periodic review, so that any prolonged detention is carefully evaluated and justified. And keeping with our Constitutional system, it will be subject to checks and balances. The goal is an approach that can be sustained by future Administrations, with support from both political parties and all three branches of government.”
It’s all BS, of course.
The majority of the coverage we get of Assad and his actions is western propaganda designed to support the interests of the NATO nations, Saudi Arabia, and Israel. Those three entities stand to profit from the demonization and vilification of Assad, as they arm and finance the forces opposing him. It’s also an orchestrated attack on an ally of Iran and a nation whose leader is more secular and tolerant than our ME allies. Syria is one of the 7 nations targeted for regime change by the West, per Gen. Wesley Clark.
He’s built an altar at his blog to Obama, where he and his disciples worship their idol.
The U.S. has been killing Taliban, suspected Taliban, families of Taliban, neighbors of Taliban etc. for ten years now, and none of it is legal (of course) or even authorized by the doormat congress under the AUMF: “To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States.”
The whole U.S. foreign military policy — which is about the only foreign policy we have — is a house of cards.
These drone killings in sovereign nations along with the sanction policies of the USA are acts of war.
forgive me for not being able to support the Party of Death and Wall Street corruption. And Pharma corruption, etc.
So, what are we trying to do? Kill everyone who is “militant”? I suspect that by now most of the 175,000,000 Pakistanis think the we are assholes, want us to leave, and are more than a bit militant about it. I sure would be if some other country were droning Americans.
And, let’s not forget that the Pakistanis have nuclear weapons. This is a very silly and dangerous game that Obama is playing.
I think the attacks on funerals are the equivalent of shooting medics on the battlefield. Or killing those with a white flag. It’s just monstrous.
If blowing up a funeral party isn’t a war crime, then it should be.
On the morning of Memorial Day I awakened to this headline – “NATO air strike kills 8 suspected militants in Afghanistan.” So, who were these “suspected militants?” Six children in the same family and their parents. Which one was the suspected militant? The 8-month old youngest child? The mother? We’ll never know. NATO, as we’ve come to expect, denied they had killed anyone. Only after being pressured did NATO acknowledge the strike and like all thugs everywhere never acknowledged any wrong doing. Because of the callousness involved in these remote killings, I believe we’ve decided to become terrorists ourselves – it certainly intimidates the folks in those remote villages. There will be a price to pay for opting for this kind of killing.
What Sharkbabe said.
Mothers aren’t allowed to bury their kids now, without the locations becoming free fire zones????
Jeebus!!!!
Here’s a graph from Pew Global Surveys of U.S. unpopularity in Pakistan, despite the assistance the U.S. has provided after earthquake and flooding.
So the military attacks more than counter all the good deeds and the money we give them, and U.S. unpopularity has climbed to 75% in Pakistan.
donbacon, I guess freedom of assembly doesn’t mean what it used to- especially if you’re a Muslim.
It just struck me how Pakistanis and Americans think much alike.
Pakistan opinion of US fav/unfav 11/75
US opinion of congress approve/disapp 15/78 (RCP ave.)
These drone attacks are an effective means to create more enemies, which will further enrich the MICC(the extra “C” is for Congress), and ensure the demise of the social safety net by funneling more money to “defense”. Obama lives to serve his masters.
PS. Think I saw you say you lived in New Mexico. Hope the wildfires spared you.
Here’s the way it started in Afghanistan on October 7, 2001, if you’ve got the stomach for it. (Obama spread it to Pakistan, as he said he would in his campaign. That’s one promise he DID keep.)
See update. This is similar to how the Obama administration eliminated Baitullah Mehsud.
True dat! Both Barack “I’m a Choom Gang member!” Obama and Mitt “Bullies are people, too, my friend!” Romney are shills for the 1% and War Street. So the MIC continues to reap ugly bloated profits and they do backflips at the ease with which they’re able to field test, and upgrade, their weapons which soon enough will be in the hands of local law enforcement agencies. And more terrorists are created than killed. Ugly, ain’t it?
BTW, the fires are to the south of me but we’re breathing some of the smoke when the winds shift. I’ve gotta sleep with the windows open at night and the other night I woke up coughing from the smoke. Miserable.
The Mafia doesn’t do hits at weddings and funerals. It’s bad for business. Depreciates “good will.” The Obama administration seems seems to take puerile pleasure in such “cleverness.”
They are sowing very, very bad Kharma.
Thanks Kevin
Read the update. Disturbing and dispiriting stuff.
What I’ve never understood is that AQ is not an existential threat to the US, but yet the elites treat it as such. If NYC was completely wiped out (heaven forbid), the nation could and would still function. Plus AQ doesn’t have that capability……… just smelly underpants.
I’m with johnnyred. Free fire zone funerals are war crimes.
“It takes a very long time to say anything in Old Entish. And we Ents never say anything unless it is worth taking a very long time to say.” — Treebeard
It takes very little effort to kill a Muslim male of military age. And we Americans never kill Muslim males of military age unless it takes very little effort to kill them.
If American officials could not speak in solipsistic circles, they couldn’t speak at all.
To Tarheel @ 6: Tarheel, I was thinking of earlier incidents when wedding parties would be targeted and the excuse given was, well, it was a large crowd so they might have been plotting terrorism. This latest attack by drone, however, is one in which it was definitely known that a funeral was taking place. I call it terrorism when the community gatherings to celebrate birth, marriage and death become targets of opportunity. That is just like a suicide bomber seeking out busy places to make their carnage spread further than the actual body count. And that’s terror, whoever does it.
Regarding the update, and what will happen in the future with possible negotiations, I expect it to get much worse mainly due to political developments. And it’s complex.
Karzai has to leave office in 2014 according to the constitution and there must be an election. He’s working on a replacement but there are other factors besides what Karzai might want. One presidential aspirant is Abdullah Abdullah (United Alliance) who was Karzai’s main opponent in the last election before he dropped out. There’s also the US congress which has had representatives recently visiting the United Front, the old Northern Alliance. Then there’s Pakistan, which fears increasing Indian influence and favors the Taliban.
So there’s the confrontation between Pashtuns (Taliban) and the northern tribes including Uzbeks, Tajiks and Hazaras represented by the United Front. Abdullah might align with them, that would be natural. Iran also has an interest in filling the vacuum soon to be created and would align with the northerners.
So given that the situation is in flux, that the Taliban is considering it is winning, that the U.S. has virtually zero diplomatic capability currently, and that several other countries are involved, we can probably forget negotiations.
Thank you, mafr; it’s just so shocking. What has happened to this country?
When will you realize it is not about winning, TBogg? It has always, always been about how you play the game.
The war crime of “attacking civilians,” whether they are “militant” or not, is subject to international jurisdiction.
Amen to that.
Body counts and free-fire zones. More Vietnam than we had in Iraq.
Diminishing Marginal Utility, Parkinson’s Law, and the Peter Principle inexorably undermine every American “war” on the “somebody” we just have to hit because we think we can.
Deep into the “Vietnamization” phase now, with the Phoenix Program generating thousands of dead bodies that Americans can count as Viet Cong — i.e., “militants.”
From “The Best and the Brightest” to “The Worst and the Dullest” in a single generation.
If Americans had political and military leadership this inept during World War II, Americans would speak German in New York and Japanese in Los Angeles.
I’m “militant” and proud of it. So was Martin Luther King. So are the Occupiers and members of the Tea Party. What’s the Obama administration going to do about us?
If folks are really committed to an alternative to first-past-the-post; then let’s make it a true priority.
If folks live in a state where the electoral outcome is a near certainty, they should be able to convince run-of-the-mill people to vote third party as a protest vote.
Simultaneously, petitions to change state constitutions and even to have constitutional conventions would be appropriate.
In the most recent Newsweek there is an article by Daniel Klaidman entitled The Silent Killers which Newsweek described as “How Obama learned to stop worrying and embrace the drone.” The article can be viewed as a companion piece to the longer NYT piece on the same subject. Ran across this quote:
“When Obama accepted the Nobel Peace Prize in December, 2009, he had authorized more drone strikes than GWB had approved during his entire presidency. By his third year in office, Obama had approved the killings of twice as many suspected terrorists as had ever been imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay. ‘We’re killing these sons of bitches faster than they can grow them,’ the head of the CIA’s counterterrorism division boasted to the Washington Post in 2011.”
This the warfare that Obama now embraces.
I believe I will vote Green, and encourage friends and family to do so as well. The things I’m reading on Jill Stein’s campaign site read like a personal wishlist; even if there’s no way she can do most of them as President except by using the power of the bully pulpit, at least she’s promising me things I want.
I don’t think we will be able to win given how crooked the race is, but it’s high time we all stood up to the Democrat bullies who keep threatening us with Republican rule if we don’t do what they say.
From The March of Folly, by Barbara Tuchman:
…
Yes, indeed, it looks like the return of the Fig Leaf Contingent to me.
They hate us because of our freedom and we’re gonna MAKE them stop.
Depleted uranium is used in tank shells because its high density makes it an excellent penetrator – better than tungsten or hardened steel. In addition, after penetrating an enemy tank or bunker it tends to burst into flame. It is, quite simply, an excellent weapon on its merits.
It does have the drawbacks of being somewhat toxic (in dust form) and mildly radioactive, but not nearly as radioactive as ignorant anti-nuke scaremongers on the left pretend – certainly not enough to seriously poison a country long-term, let alone make them effective area denial weapons. Radon is a bigger hazard than a bit of leftover DU.
In any case, it wouldn’t make any sense to put DU in drone missiles, and as far as I know no warheads contain DU – it would just be dead weight, and if you’re trying to make a dirty bomb there are better (more radioactive) materials that are also lighter and cheaper.
Here we go again:
“The president has made a realistic assessment of what by now seems obvious to nearly all. The Afghan war is not going to be “won” by the U.S. Obama’s decision is to “Vietnamize” it.” — William Pfaff, “The Age of Drones,” Truthdig.com (May 29, 2012)
…X 2
It’s all BS…yes it is.
See B.Manning.
Yes, it’s ugly, but if you read US history not written and approved by the PTB of USA, Inc. it’s pretty much business as usual. Read any accounts written by the “victims” of US foreign policy rather than the “victors” and it’s pretty clear we’ve been fed a bunch of crap for a long, long time.
Stay safe and remember that you’re not a “phoenix” with the ability to arise from the ashes.
“Obama’s war in Afghanistan was about saving political face. Throughout history there have been a lot of reasons for going to war, but few are as cynical as one’s political reputation. Hundreds of billions of dollars were wasted, thousands of soldiers and civilians were killed so that Obama could avoid being called a wimp by Republicans.” — John Glaser, “War for Political Repute,” Anti-war.com (May 22, 2012)
Worst of all, considering all the needless deaths and squandered national treasure, the Republicans will go on calling President Obama a “wimp,” anyway, simply because he can never kill enough Muslims to suit them, no matter how hard he tries. That he could ever have thought otherwise belies his vaunted reputation as an intelligent man.
…X 2
Since first Deputy Dubya Bush, and now Barack Hoover Obama have robbed us of so many of our rights, the “terrorists” don’t hate us so much as they once did. Therefore, if we give up and surrender to our own government’s insatiable hunger for what few rights we have left, then we wouldn’t have any, and the “terrorists” wouldn’t hate us at all.
Talk – Dr. Doug Rokke – Depleted Uranium (DU) – YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-VkpR-wka8&feature=related
Leuren Moret – Depleted Uranium – YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMgU9kEe3Vk&feature=related
Research links rise in Falluja birth defects and cancers to US assault | World news | The Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/30/faulluja-birth-defects-iraq
Depleted Uranium – Far Worse Than 9/11
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2374
Iraq congenital birth defect survey to begin in April
http://www.bandepleteduranium.org/en/iraq-congenital-birth-defect-survey-to-begin-in-ap
Osama Bin Laden told us exactly why he went after Amerika.
QUIT MEDDLING IN OTHER COUNTRIES! MIND OUR OWN FECKING BUSINESS!
Coming here late and went straight to the comment box, so forgive me if someone else has already posted this, but it seems the Tbogg battle from the other drone thread has been noticed elsewhere. Here’s a comment exchange from a Lambert Strether post on NakedCapitalism:
Reply — Jim Haygood says:
June 3, 2012 at 9:51 am
Hussein O’Bugger has taken to quoting former Louisiana governor Edwin Edwards:
“The only way I can lose this election is if I’m caught in bed with either a live boy or a dead girl.”
Reply — TK421 says:
June 3, 2012 at 11:12 am
Great question, Bob Andray.
Getting caught in bed with a boy wouldn’t hurt Obama’s chances that much. And if he were caught with a dead girl, Tbogg would still support him.
Reply –Lambert Strether says:
June 3, 2012 at 1:15 pm
Yeah, that meltdown was awe-inspiring.
Indeed, it’s precisely the kind of thing a terrorist would do.
The Hutaree Militia, a whackjob Christian terrorist group, plotted to kill highway patrol officers and then bomb their funerals. Of course, being “christians,” they were let off on minor weapons charges.
So the Obama White House has essentially lowered itself–and by extension the American People–to the pathetic level of religious zealots doing terrorism. Isn’t it great that this is also a Bi-Partisan Consensus?
It’s a bloody shame Party Loyalists are so uncaring about all the blowback that will result from this. Innocent Americans will be made to pay the price for all this at some point. Will the Loyalists then take responsibility for their sycophantic nonsense?
Don’t bet on it.
> Right. Get back to me when to me when The Glorious
> People’s Progressive Party wins an election outside of
> co-chair of their local community’s ad hoc recycling
> committee.
Right. Get back to me when you’re finished Dining At The O while pissing your britches in fear. Fear. FEAR FEAR FEAR of 6-year-old POTENTIAL THREAT. Must kill! KILL KILL KILL!!!
I’m voting for Dr. Jill Stein.
(D) Party Loyalists are so uncaring about all the blowback that will result from this. Innocent Americans will be made to pay the price for all this at some point. Will the Loyalists then take responsibility for their sycophantic nonsense?
By responsibility, I take it to mean admission of guilt or admission of being wrong.
Here’s what they’ll say:
No one could have predicted _____________!
And:
They hate us for our freedom.
And we will be asked to ponder this important question:
Why do they hate us for our freedom?
And the President will say:
The American lifestyle is non-negotiable.
Go Shopping.
Now watch me bail out these banks and airlines.
Or as Jon Schwatrz put’s it: LOVE ME NOW OR I KILL, KILL, KILL…
realitychecker June 3rd, 2012 at 4:13 pm 40 (reprinted from another thread)
Daniel Klaidman has a new book out this week on Obama’s Presidency. From an article in The Telegraph (taken from Drudge ): “Klaidman writes in his book that shortly after taking office in 2009, Mr Obama was already keenly aware of the possibility that he might be ousted by the former Massachusetts governor after one term.
“You never know who is going to be president four years from now,” Mr Obama is said to have told aides during a discussion about whether he should be able to detain terror suspects indefinitely. “I have to think about how Mitt Romney would use that power.”” (forgive my demon keyboard) So, Romney with the power to kill and ignore the Constitution is OK with Obama, and presumably with all his supporters, as well. So, a Romney win in November? It’s all good. Glad we can stop arguing about it.
While I’m sure they will recycle (always recycle!) the pat GOP talking points, I also expect the kind of hippy bashing we haven’t seen since Joe McCarthy.
“It’s the fault of those damn liberals, hating Amerika and everything!”
On Memorial Day, Dear Leader accused “liberals” of puttin’ the hate on Vietnam Vets and scolded those anti-war folks for bein’ all unpatriotic and such.
Quoted by David Sirota:
Contra Sirota, it’s pretty clear Obama was trying to suggest the spitting incidents without naming them, since there isn’t any documentary evidence of such.
If this is the way the Party is going, the DNC should be resplendent with hippy bashing.
Yes, there are many people making claims about the dangers of DU.
There are also people who make claims about the dangers of dental fluoride, chemtrails, cellphones, microwave ovens, soy protein, and vaccines – although not that last one quite so much anymore now that the study linking vaccines and autism has been admitted a hoax. Saying something don’t make it so.
The fact is that DU simply isn’t radioactive enough, nor does it give off the right kind of radiation, to cause the kind of illness and birth defects being attributed to it. That’s a measurable, objective fact, not a crackpot pseudoscientific claim. And with a biological half-life of a couple of weeks, it seems implausible that chemical toxicity is the cause of the cancers and other long-term problems reported by those claiming DU exposure as the cause, and there’s no research (that I know of) to substantiate those claims… though if you were going to make a case against DU, chemical toxicity would probably be your best position.
Shorter TBagg: If a few thousand innocent children have to die to ensure President Obama’s glorious re-election victory, so be it.
The toxicity of DU has been investigated for at least two decades now. The Basra Highway massacre involved tens of thousands of rounds of 40mm DU rounds from Apaches alone… way back in the first Iraq war.
If you have empirical evidence that disproves the empirically-based opinions of thousands of epidemiological experts, please put it up.
Bullshit. If that’s the case, then please explain the USAF protocols for handling DU ammo when techs are simply loading aircraft magazines. Also explain protocols for servicing the guns after use.
In your previous comment, you deliberately understated why DU is used against armor. It does in fact burn at very high temps, melting through armor and incinerating the occupants of the target vehicle. That’s what is designed to do.
That is also why it works as well as it does. It’s not about density as much as creating a high-temperature plume of hot gas that will melt through 10+ inches of the best armor plating… in a millisecond. That’s what AT weapons have been doing since the invention of shaped charges. DU does it better, due to the higher temps that burn more like magnesium or phosphorus than typical explosives. So yes, the mass matters, but it’s the volatility of that mass that burns through metal better. That is because it’s Uranium!
It also happens that gas contains a lot of Hot Particles. That is also the point!
What doesn’t kill them right away will get them later. Of course, anyone else, like American soldiers walking by burning vehicles and the civilians whose only crime is living in the area… well, they may very well be fucked too.
So again, provide some evidence, instead of talking-point skepticism straight out of a defense industry PR handbook.
since you are here, permit me to repeat a comment made generally on the prior thread. (you co-star in the scenario)
On the necessity to vote third party, a thought experiment:
You, Bogg and Bacon have been snatched by a survivor of a drone strike.
His entire family, incinerated.
Applying the Bin Laden doctrine, (the citizens of a democracy bear responsibility for it’s crimes), he puts Bacon on the polygraph.
“Did you vote for Obama?” Bacon’s denial returns “true”. He is free to go.
Turning to Bogg. “And you?”. No hero, Bogg likewise denies complicity by ballot, but the box knows better. “False”.
His head rolls past you while they adjust the polygraph leads.
Aren’t you glad you didn’t vote lesser evil?
If folk want to argue about depleted uranium (a subject that has been discussed many times on other threads,) you should please do Kevin the courtesy of taking that argument and doing a diary about it. The subject of this thread is the cumulative propaganda of media coverage of drone assassinations, and I know it is a huge matter to digest that our leadership is actually doing these things, supported by the fourth estate, but we need to keep our focus and not stray. I take Xplo’s point that DU is not used in drone warfare, so please can we stay on topic.
If indeed this kind of escalation of rhetoric and drone activity signals some evil endgame on the part of the Obama team, I dread to think what sort of October surprise he may be dreaming up. If it instead signals that things are falling apart for the war games, or that economically we are in for a surprise of a different sort, each of these have unwelcome ramifications also. There seems to be some sort of unravelling occurring, and there may be dark days ahead that we cannot presently imagine. Certainly with the lack of goodwill these actions must generate in the world’s peoples, when the wolf is at our door I doubt anyone will really feel like helping us.
The best scenario I can envision is that good intentions will turn into hardened opposition from unlikely places and our third party aspirations will be strengthened as the dark days come upon us. At which point, we gently assist the ptb into their straightjackets and into the emptied prisons awaiting their occupancy. (Gotta have something pleasant to dream about.)
Then we just hitch up our overalls and become that agrarian economy Jefferson was so hoping we would be. Finally.
above is meant to reply to TBogg….@19
You new to the internet, juliania?
President Obama is a “murderer” as Jeremy Schahill suggested. Obama-apologists are actually Neo-Liberals while we Progressives are the only people on the Left. Obama-apologists are Centrists.
No, Progressives aren’t the only people on the Left. There are much more radical people, who would probably classify themselves as socialist or communist that constantly organize demonstrations and forums on key issues. They often take action when progressives/liberals hesitate or fail to take any action at all.
There is a broad spectrum of left-wing voices out there that oppose the wars and austerity policies of the global 1%. Some from the right show up to these events organized by the left an oppose the wars/austerity policies of the global 1% too.