Most liberals in the United States seem to prefer ignoring what is happening with WikiLeaks, particularly its founder and editor-in-chief Julian Assange. Either they are totally repulsed by Assange as an individual, they do not consider WikiLeaks to have provided a valuable service by releasing previously classified documents, the way the United States government is pursuing WikiLeaks founders, owners, managers, staffers and others connected doesn’t bother them or the story at this point is so complicated that they do not have the patience to sort out all the details to figure out the truth.
These various viewpoints inevitably lead to a contention that the era of WikiLeaks is over and, perhaps, the organization never really mattered that much at all. Such views are not surprising given the way that the US press has covered or failed to cover developments in the story of Assange, Pfc. Bradley Manning, the soldier accused of releasing classified information to WikiLeaks, and the media organization. Should WikiLeaks even enjoy First Amendment protection? That is a question for people who do not think Assange is a journalist or that WikiLeaks is a media organization. The dispute over this question is a result of those pundits and commentators in the US media that feel threatened by what WikiLeaks represents. And all of this can combine to form a general disgust toward seeing shows cover issues surrounding Assange, Manning or WikiLeaks.
Chris Hayes, host of the MSNBC show, “Up,” covered Ecuador’s decision to grant Assange asylum this morning. From the outset, Hayes made his view on the situation clear saying, “It’s hard for me to figure out where I am on all of this because there seems to be a lot of conflicting facts.” He said the facts around the alleged sexual assault—why Sweden claims it wants to extradite him from the United Kingdom—are complicated.
[Here are the segments "Up" did on Assange: Segment 1 | Segment 2 | Segment 3]
Hayes continued, “Assange himself as a figure seems complicated and in some senses a frustrating, maddening figure; also admirable in certain ways. The key thing here is when you look at what happened—how did we get here? He hasn’t even been charged with a crime. He is wanted for questioning in connection” to “serious allegations.”
Rolling Stone contributing editor Michael Hastings, who was on the show because of his interview with Assange published in January, suggested those discussing the situation step back. WikiLeaks is the “most significant journalistic enterprise that we’ve seen in the last thirty years,” he stated. What Assange did with Cablegate, the Iraq and Afghanistan war logs led to many critical news stories. Hastings added, “Over 310,000 stories around the world based off the documents WikiLeaks released,” have been written. Many of the news stories one reads now will reference WikiLeaks cables somewhere in the final paragraphs of the story. And what Assange did “angered the most powerful governments in the world. That is why Assange is in this situation.”
The, “It’s complicated,” view is a safe and neutral viewpoint to take. For anyone not wanting to wade through the weeds and stake out a position, it is easy to say this is all complicated. It also is completely fair because the combination of views from WikiLeaks supporters, who have been extremely active in defending Assange and WikiLeaks, and the condescending or sneering opinions of US pundits or commentators have made it easy for someone not following the story closely to doubt much of what is being reported and think all discussion is typically biased and it is impossible to get the truth. Nonetheless, if one cares, it is possible to sort out what is really happening and the show made a genuine effort to do just that.
Hayes layered in on the critical issue in all this that, besides Assange’s perceived character defects, happens to be polarizing people: whether Sweden is “acting either out of their own desire to punish Assange and want to prosecute him” or is acting as a “proxy” for more powerful countries, like the United States, in their pursuit.
There is uneasiness for liberals when asked to accept that Sweden is acting as a proxy because they think this is something Assange is just saying so he can get away with not being punished for the sexually assault he allegedly committed against two women. WikiLeaks supporters throughout the world, however, say Swedish authorities continue to stand behind the case so Assange remains tied up until the US wants him to be extradited to the United States; in fact, he is likely to be extradited from the United States after he is taken into custody in Sweden and would have much more difficulty fighting extradition in Sweden. But liberals hear this view and, without more evidence of a conspiracy, they do not think he should be seeking asylum in Ecuador. They think he should go to Sweden and confront the allegations because the women who accused him of sexual assault do not deserve to be subjected to this long, drawn out process that is created by him trying to protect himself from persecution.
What ardent skeptics do not know or refuse to factor into their view is that the Swedish government has refused to send someone to question Assange in the Ecuador embassy or in the UK, even though both Assange and Ecuador have requested the authorities send someone. If the Swedish government is genuinely concerned over the women who have made sexual allegations, it is troubling to see the government continue to refuse to send someone to question Assange in London. Not wanting to question just proves that what matters most is not the case itself but getting Assange into their custody.
It is not like Sweden has not acted as a proxy before. If one accepts that US officials likely view the ultimate prosecution of Assange for releasing classified documents as matter of national security, they could probably get Sweden to do as requested. Sweden did allow the CIA to operate a rendition program that violated a torture ban inside their country.
Similar to when the show decided to cover Obama’s policies involving drone executions of alleged terror suspects, there was outrage that Hayes chose to cover Assange:







The opposition to the coverage because people thought Hayes should be talking about voter suppression instead is funny, given the fact that his Sunday program tomorrow will be addressing the issue of voter suppression. It also is not like Assange dominated the broadcast this morning. He covered GOP vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan before talking Assange. Plus, the Ecuador decision to grant asylum was a much-anticipated major breaking news story this week (as Firedoglake readers know well). Liberals were just outraged because Hayes spent time talking about Assange and WikiLeaks on the show. They don’t want to be given information that might given them a reason to care about what is happening.
Finally, Josh Barro, who is a lead writer for Bloomberg View’s The Ticker, jumped into share his reactionary viewpoint. He said having these documents released “did nobody good.” That hundreds of thousands of stories were written and that change might have occurred did not make the release a “good thing.” He argued, “The government should be able to keep some secrets,” as if it is increasingly has trouble with preserving its culture of secrecy. “It doesn’t do anybody good that it’s known that we think the foreign minister of Germany sucks and we like the one previously,” he declared.
That reaction is born out of the fact that most media organizations did not cover the substantive or key revelatory stories that showed the true corruption of the American empire and instead focused in on sections of the cables that made it seem like Assange had gotten his hands on a high school girl’s diary. The Bradley Manning Support Network highlighted key revelations showing that Manning did not simply uncover gossip. He uncovered serious abuses and crimes that, if released by him, the network of supporters believes are to his credit.
Barro continued saying there’s “lots of private information that would be fun for journalists to know but part of the way diplomacy works is to be able to be discreet and be able to have tact. For example, cables showed the US did not have faith in elements of the Mexican government and that undermined diplomatic relations. The problem with this view is wouldn’t it be better for the Mexican people and American people to have it out in the open that there was a high level of distrust? The transparency would hopefully force people to resolve issues that were creating precarious situations and perhaps even fueling violence or conflict.
The viewpoint is less authoritarian than something Representative Peter King might say but still backward because what being able to operate discreetly means is the US can engage in underhanded diplomacy—blackmail, bribery, coercion, deception, fraud, misconduct, etc, and engage in coverups of crimes. They can work on behalf of multinational corporations and overlook the brutality or criminal aspects of a country’s government just to keep relations with a country smooth. That is why so many countries in the world have descended into chaos and suffer from increased repression. The culture of secrecy—the fact that diplomacy between countries is not more transparent—fuels and enables corruption amongst world powers. Other countries are reluctant to come to the aid of populations in countries by confronting countries’ leaders because it could make diplomatic relations unmanageable.



94 Comments

Kevin, Thank you for this post.
If anyone would like to see some positive effects from WikiLeaks, here are some great articles that have changed media and the government – The Nation magazine (Aug 13-20, 2012)
Many liberals despise Assange for one simple reason: they don’t have a problem with war, lies, and corruption as long as “their guy” is in the White House.
I have been following this story quite closely, and through other media than the US MSM.
One good thing Wikileaks exposed was in Ecuador itself. Apparently the US Ambassador was paying a corrupt faction of the Ecuador National Police to undermine Correa’s new populist policies. Nice! Because of the Wikicables – President Correa put a stop to this, fired the police, and expelled the US Ambassador. He shut down a complicit radio station and cleaned up the whole corrupt mess.
In return for this, the US called him a corrupt, dictator, accused him of stifling the “free” press, threatened him with a bunch of trade sanctions and all manner of other draconian measures. Yeah – that’s what keeping all of our nice little secrets does for you. It lets the biggest bully on the block keep on playing dirty tricks on all the littler kids without them knowing what is really going on.
So, Assange may need some lessons in personal responsibility when it comes to the women in his life – but on the other front – he is a hero in my book. BTW – he IS a journalist, no question about it.
Thank you, Kevin for speaking to truth.
Might you, however, define a bit more precisely just what you mean by the term, “liberal”?
My sincere appreciation, as well, to each of those who have commented previously on this thread … each of you have supplied “context” and “perspective” which is most important.
DW
Speaking of the “rape” case:
Act I.
At the time of the original allegations, Assange was questioned at length by the prosecutor in the district where the alleged rapes took place. Assange answered all the questions. Both women freely admitted that the only reason they went to the police was to get Assange to take an AIDS test. Assange agreed to do so and did. The prosecutor decided that there was no grounds for a case to be brought against Assange. Mr. Assange was then told he was free to leave the country. He did so.
Act II.
The USA brings a sealed indictment against Julian Assange. Somehow, Karl Rove knows about this. Rove is connected with a former aide to the King of Sweden, this aide assisted the US with the CIA’s rendition flights to torture sites during the Bush administration – something that was against Swedish law at the time. There have been investigations and a lot of prying and poking about this in Sweden but no prosecutions yet. Anyway…
A new prosecutor, linked to this aide, and in a different jurisdiction, brings new allegations and issues an Interpol warrant for Julian Assange. It is this warrant that is the basis for the extradition hearings in London. This Interpol warrant was extreme in that it was red-flagged, something that is ususlly reserved for terrorists, murderers, bank robbers and persons armed and dangerous. Julian Assange was/is none of the above and in fact has not even been formally charged with anything. He is wanted for questioning only. (Note – he has already been questioned!)
ActIII
Julian Assange has offered to present himself at the Swedish Embassy in London for questioning. They have refused.
Julian Assange has offered to appear for video conferencing with Swedish authorities at a time and place in London of their choosing. They have refused.
The Ecuadorian Embassy has asked the Swedish government to come to their embassy now and question Assange. They have refused.
If the Swedes only want to question him – why do they keep refusing opportunities to do so? Each of these options has been used by the Swedish government in the past when they wished to question persons in the process of investigations in crimes.
Final Notes:
The former Swedish High Prosecutor has said that it is unethical and an embarassment for his country to be pursuing Julian Assange in this manner and in this case. The case does not warrant it and the matter should be dropped, in his opinion.
What this case is really about is that the Swedes are under pressure to get Julian to Sweden so they can immediately transfer him to US Custody. That is it in a nutshell. End of story.And if you want to know what will happen to him once he gets here (if he actually even makes it back here) you only have to look at Bradley Manning, or maybe Jose Padilla. Of course both of them are US citizens. Assange is not. So maybe he’ll wind up like oh, I don’t know, that guy we waterboarded 85 times or so before we found out he wasn’t really the #2 guy in al Quaeda because he was brain-damaged. Oh, nevermind.
Plus, Sweden was asked to guarantee that if Assange came to Sweden for questioning he would not be extradited to the U.S. Sweden refused.
I suspect that everyone here has seen Phoenix Woman’s post from this morning, which discusses a “tell” that Kevin already brought to our attention?
PW fleshes out the story.
http://firedoglake.com/2012/08/18/come-saturday-morning-engel-undermines-us-talking-points-on-julian-assange/
I guess that certain “liberals” just do not want to acknowledge what is actually going on, at many level in this “government” …
DW
Two questions:
1. Does the US have any jurisdiction over Assange? Why?
2. If the US has any jurisdiction, does the first amendment apply? If not why not?
To be particular, this could be considered 4 question.
I find the videos from that Chris Hayes show truly disturbing. In the format used, they were all talking over one another and anyone not already knowledgeable about the issues, in my opinion, wouldn’t know what to think. If Chris Hayes would like to understand the situation and would like his viewers to understand the situation, he should do an interview with Kevin alone.
This is my first time watching UP. If this is representative of his shows, I won’t watch again.
Excellent analysis, Kevin. You’ve been right on target with these reports.
Here’s the feedback I just left for Chris Hayes at UP:
“I just watched the video of your three segments about Julian Assange. I found it truly disturbing. In my opinion, with everyone talking over one another like that, viewers who weren’t already knowledgeable about the issue, wouldn’t know what to think.
If you would like to understand the issues more completely, please read Kevin Gosztola at FireDogLake.com on the subject. If you would like your viewers to understand the issues, have Kevin on alone for an interview.
Thank you”
Thanks for that information.
I know that Ecuador had been accused of some press suppression, but didn’t know about the US involvement with the ambassador, etc.
Do you have some links?
I say Hooray for Assange. You don’t put people in jail because they told the truth. Our gov’t has no reason to do this.
I watched UP this morning and I generally like the show. But, when the ” satirist ” Richard Belzer is the only one who gets it; that speaks volumes about the present state of journalism in the U.S. Belzer asked the only pertinent ? in this segment: ” Uncomfortable for whom? ” It was a lost line never to be addressed by this panel on this day. Why? Because liberals have swallowed hook, line and sinker the meme that foreign policy matters are by nature ” generally beneficial to the entire country from the 1%ers to the poorest shlubs on the street. ” That is simply a huge lie the press won’t touch. It has to do with the MIC, the Corporate-centered/Syndicate nature of our foreign policy and AIPAC, particularly. Corporate thirst for cheap natural resources and cheap labor drive our government and our foreign policy. Neither are necessarily good for the middle class. But like so many areas of our lives these days what is good for the overwhelming majority of Americans is given short shrift in our nation’s capital and corporate boardrooms. We are mere fodder for the cannons. And, we dare not ask ” beneficial for whom? “
I also would like to see links, lokywoky, especially regarding Ambassador Hodges and the involvement you state that she had with the National Police.
I have searched rather widely, with no luck so far, and should very much like to be able to confirm what you report about Hodges.
DW
The appreciable difference between Liberals and Conservatives is the form their respective authority figures take. Generally, Conservative tend to prefer god, Liberals the state. Both are interested in managing others under the objectifying paternalism of their own particular source of authority–for everyone’s own good, you see. And note how they both believe what the TeeVee says: Conservatives unquestioningly follow the likes of Beck; Liberals think Olbermann tells it like it is. What a world of difference.
Of course LIberals neither like nor understand the actions of Assange. He thumbed his nose at order and authority. Ye gods, this guy violated the chain of command! He showed no respect for rank! He did impolite and embarrassing things! He did not kowtow to the rational seriousness of experts!
Good for Assange. Good for Ecuador.
i am thinking of a dinner i attended recently, where someone tried to argue with me about the left versus the right in the usa.
there is no left. no right. it is one branch of fascism arguing with another branch of totalitarianism.
that is today’s usa. in fact, it is probably the proper characterization of all the so-called western[nato] democracies.
“There are whistleblowers and then there are Assange and Manning.”
Outstanding! Indeed. And the difference is that Assange and Manning have put their own asses on the line. They have done something that has cost them personally. If it doesn’t cost you something, Liberals, it means nothing.
The connection between Hodges and WikiLeaks has to do with a cable, dated 2009, “intercepted” by WikiLeaks in which Ambassador Hodges states that President Correa was aware of National Police corruption and especially that of Commander Jaime Vaca …
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8430639/Ecuador-expels-US-ambassador-over-WikiLeaks.html
This is a Brit newspaper, so …
It is interesting to note that the head of the National Police, Freddy Martinez, resigned on Oct. 01, 2010 … one day after a police uprising left President Correa trapped for several hours in a hospital until troops loyal to Correa arrived and rescued him … two police officers were killed.
Correa said that police compensation issues were merely a pretext for the police to kidnap him and try to overthrow his government.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/category/world/ecuador/
Now, of course this is from cnn.
Lots of things never get covered in any real detail, it seems.
DW
I will just add in defense of the program that a person working for the show contacted me and spoke to me on background about Assange and what the US is and is not doing in their pursuit. Hayes made a point during the program about why “WikiLeaks supporters” say he won’t be extradited from the UK. He said something about the US ggovernment not wanting to extradite him while there was a case against him being brought by Sweden. That was a key point I made while speaking to the person on background
What is happening to Wikileaks media star Assange is NOTHING compared to what is happening to Bradley Manning, the person who actually allegedly leaked the documents and has been held as a political prisoner is the U.S. for what, two years now? Pull your head out of your ass.
Good call. Satirists have been the only ones getting it since Lenny Bruce, which is to say the maturity of US empire. That’s how you know your society has jumped the shark, when the court jesters are the only ones telling the truth.
“. . . one branch of fascism arguing with another branch of totalitarianism.”
Bang! Well put.
i heard him say that, but didn’t understand it as the whole swedish case seems to be a sham to get him to the u.s via sweden. seems to me like the u.k. could have just as easily extradited him before he sought asylum with ecuador.
What do you suppose will happen to Assange if the U.S. gets their hands on him? Do you imagine his treatment or the charges filed against him will be better than Manning’s?
Which is why, had I been on the show, I would have made this point. This is what I wrote in my article yesterday:
The liberal problem with Assange is that many cannot believe that Authoritarian, Republican-like, Reactionary Assholes exist in every country. When we think of Sweden we think, no one over there is that mendacious, that corrupt, or that self serving. Alas, the Swedes are human, . . . so some are mendacious, corrupt, and/or self serving.
I find the same issues come up over and over again: the other side would never stoop that low. YES! my darling liberals, to win, THEY will!
Have you paid any attention at all to FDL’s, and specifically Kevin’s, activism on behalf of Bradley Manning? Or do you simply go around from one blog to another pissing in the punchbowl?
Well, Assange is complicated – for erstwhile journalists, but not for information consumers.
One other comment re: the diplomatic situation with Assange in the Ecuadorian Embassy.
I think people are underestimating/not using enough imagination to think about Assange’s passage out of of the Embassy to Ecuador itself. I’m not going to give away methods, but I’ve thought of at least 3 to get him out of the embassy. Here’s one hint that shouldn’t screw up other methods:
How about creating multiple Assanges for a while? How you gonna track them, British Intelligence?
Does facial recognition really work or can make up defeat it? Question is do you want to risk a free ride to gitmo onthe answer.
Kevin – thank you, thank you, thank you for all the reporting you are doing on Assange and Bradley Manning. I really appreciate it.
What difference would it make if Assanges is in Ecuador?
The US could just label him a terrorist and send in a Seal team, or track him with a drone and take him out the moment he is outside.
This Assange affair is a classic minus-sum game. The permanent apparatchiks within our gov’t and the small world of ” foreign affairs ” have been videotaped on a public nude beach with their bums showing, pimples and all. Their phones have been tapped and their pettiness and pouts has been revealed. In the halls of Congress and the offices of the Secretary of State this cheesy exposure must not go unpunished. Lest the mere mortals of the land of the governed think they can expose and publish just any old thing about bums, pimples and the ugly backside of things in general. Size is not the issue here, and they can thank their lucky stars. Remember the old saw, ” Everyone likes a little ass but nobody likes a smart ass. ” Mr. Assange is a classic ” smart ass ” in the best sense of the word so all who think of him as a good journalist and world patriot must be sent a message. As Belzer pointed out, ” this stuff was mostly boring ” but for control freaks nothing is to trivial as to not go unpunished. Absolutely, nothing!!! And, don’t you effin’ forget that!!!
I resent the idea that one is worth defending more than the other. In their roles, they have both taken actions that are characteristic of whistleblowers (though in Manning’s case I’ll say “allegedly” took action). It does not serve the cause of transparency or the fight against rampant state secrecy, which serves to coverup corruption, to debate whether Assange or Manning is more worthy of a defense than the other.
It would make a difference to Assange who has been under house arrest/holed-up in an embassy for well over 500 days now.
They do that, they destroy their relations with the rest of Latin America, which has lined up foursquare behind Ecuador and Assange. The only probable exceptions are the blood-drenched right-wing narcostates of Colombia and Honduras.
thanks, i saw that yesterday and that makes sense. what got said on the show didn’t make sense.
if he really wants to cover assange for his viewers, he’ll have you on in a format that actually allows you to speak.
Great post Kevin but i think you may be treading on dangerous ground by calling out Liberals.
The reason that we don’t know much about the cables relating to other countries is that Wikileaks sent them directly to news media in those countries and not to the US media.
By the way:
This will never make it into the establishment US media’s radar screens, but even as we tweak Russia over Pussy Riot, Russia is tweaking our ally, Britain (and by extension, us) about Assange:
Let us hope they stay united on this issue.
Excellent story, KG. Further evidence, if more were needed, that there is a large faction of mainstream, so-called “liberals” who really don’t give a damn about the First Amendment.
they’re practicing to be the three “hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil” monkeys.
At this point I don’t think anyone in DC cares.
Our foreign policy boils down to might makes right.
Liberalism is a morally spent force, part of a larger construct that arose as the other side of the bourgeois-democratic coin with conservatism in a capitalist economic system that is now failing everywhere. It no longer describes our world or aids us in changing it.
We have to sharpen our critique of it, learn to think beyond it. Especially since it is the starting point for many of us, and since we continue–sometimes despite ourselves–to be drawn toward the consumer paradise it falsely paints. For a small number of us, Obama has been instructive in showing how liberals, including in their group behavior, have so much in common with conservatives.
For me this is proof that we really shouldn’t work with the Democrats, or continue to kid ourselves that we can change the party “from within,” but need a new social movement, from outside, that makes systematic and not ameliorative change its first objective.
Sorry I haven’t replied earlier. I got this information from listening to an interview between Julian Assange that he did with President Rafael Correa on Assange’s shortlived interview show shortly before he went into the Ecuadorian embassy and asked for asylum. It is Episode 6 and was originally shown on RT Tv and is still available (free) on Hulu if you want to watch it.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/363687
Although it would seem counterintuitive, it would be much harder to extradite Assange from Great Britain at this point than from Sweden. Sweden has been complicit with our rendition for torture program during the Bush years and it appears as though that network may still be in some operational status thanks to the presence of Karl Rove and cronies. Thus the still-sealed indictment and all the steadfast denials of any interest in Assange by our State Department and DOJ.
However, in order for the US to extradite from the UK, the DOJ would have to unseal the indictment and the date of the Grand Jury proceedings would give lie to the “no interest” statements we have been making to our friends across the pond. The UK has a very thorough and painstaking extradition proceeding and this development would prompt them to probably drag their feet and dot every “i” and cross every “t” and then some as a result of all the embarassment at being lied to (yet again) by their ‘best friends’. Some extraditions from the UK have taken up to 5-7 years, and those have not been nearly as controversial as Assange.
You can bet that Assange and his team of lawyers would fight this tooth and nail. The UK has already been smarting about the detention of some of its other citizens at Gitmo and although Assange isn’t a Brit, he is a commonwealther. So I think the DOJ thought it would be a lot easier and simpler to get him from Sweden.
The “liberal” “opposition” that dislikes Assange so much is cointelpro propaganda from the government. I have yet to hear any actual people in real life voice anti-Assange opinions, although I’m sure they will soon with all this anti-Assange propaganda being shoved down the throat of the American people.
Thank you, lokywoky.
Much appreciated.
DW
Well said, Matthew Detroit.
DW
thanks. the only part i would question is about the u.s. lying to u.k. re grand jury. i think u.k. knows and is complicit. maybe to put a good face on it for their own citizens.
The circumstances that Mr. Assange is under right at the moment are different from what Pfc Bradley Manning is suffering, to be sure. But Mr. Assange is facing serious threats to his life as well. He may well spend the rest of his life in one room in that small embassy in London, and believe me – the Ecuadorian embassy in London is like a small office – it is no palace. Julian is essentially in a prison as well. He has not one but three entire countries trying to get him out of there, and one tiny one defending him. The tiny one is not his home country. He has filed a petition of abandonment by his home country – Australia – with the UN, and it has been accepted without protest. That’s got to be a good feeling, right?
So maybe he’s not in a locked down military prison like Bradley Manning, but he is in prison, nonetheless. And for what? Being a journalist. Doing his job. A job that is guaranteed under our Constitution.
As far as Bradley Manning – IMHO – he was doing his job as well. Telling the truth. He has admitted to providing the tape of the helicopter shooting the civilians. That tape was not classified. It had been seen publicly before.
As far as the rest of the cables? Well, the evidence is still not in on that.
BTW and OT – all 12 of Assange’s interviews are on Hulu. If you want to watch some truly interesting journalistic interviews with some really fascinating people, you all should watch them all. I highly recommend the one with Hassan Nasrullah, the head of Hezbollah. He had quite some interesting observations on what is going on in Syria. It’s always good to get another POV from a person who was/is a good friend of Bashir Assad.
Also to see the journalist in action…
Hey Kevin, listen for a second to the words of an old fart who has been around the block a few times. There are two women in Sweden who claim that Julian Assange sexually assaulted them. Julian, after the investigation in August of 2010, decided that it would be in his best interest to leave Sweden because the evidence of his guild was being very well substantiated.
We “must” think about the two women who have claimed to have been sexually assaulted by Assange.
Many years ago, I personally was very close to a friend in college who had been sexually assaulted by the president of my fraternity. He assaulted her at a fraternity walk-out in Wisconsin. The guy was a “local rock star,” (actually, he was an egomaniac asshole) much like Assange is now on a larger scale. I learned from her a few years later that she knew that if she were to have tried to press charges then that she would be looked at as just a another tart trying to ‘Bring down the local hero.”
I met my friend recently. And, even though it has been decades since the event, she still seeks psychiatric therapy to block out what happened decades ago.
There are two women in Sweden who claim that they have been sexually assaulted by Julian Assange.
I want you, Keven Gosztola, to explain to me {and the rest of the blogosphere) why Julian Assange should not face charges for sexually assaulting two women in Sweden.
That’s about right, except for the shutting down of a radio station (which is not something I’ve heard about; and outlets can only be shut down in Ecuador if they fail to comply with technical regulations, payment of fees, etc.)
One thing that is missing in discussions of why Assange chose Ecuador of all countries, and why Ecuador would take the huge risk of granting him asylum, is Wikileaks itself: The diplomatic cables were invaluable to Ecuador. They clearly showed how previous administrations practically took orders from the US. There are also a couple years of the Correa administration in there. Julian Assange could probably tell who might be an ally he can trust, with similar values and views.
JSO, It is possible that Assange is being framed or set up in some way for extradition to US military imprisonment. We have a shadow gov’t here, capable of doing pretty much what they want. And what they want is everything. Regards.
a very important point that most are unaware of. your succinct explanation is spot on.
How about the two women themselves? The tweets and Youtube postings from both women after he slept with them said they found him fun to be with, a gentleman, and good in bed. That is until each one of them found out he had been with the other woman.
Then they both went to the police together and lodged accusations.
Next: the definition of “rape” in Swedish law is not the same as it is here in the US. You need to look that up.
And finally: Both women have admitted that the only reason they went to the police in the first place was to get Assange to take an AIDS test. He did that. Done and Done.
Assange cooperated with the prosecutor in the investigation when they both went to the police in the jurisdiction where they were. He answered all their questions. He took the test. The prosecutor declined to file a case. He told Assange he was free to go. As in free to leave the country. End of discussion.
He did not sexually assault either of those two women. That’s why.
I won’t because I am not suggesting and will never suggest that Julian Assange should not face the allegations that he sexually assaulted the two women, who accuse him of committing these crimes.
And, I have covered this extensively and am comfortable asserting that the vast majority of WikiLeaks/Assange supporters are not suggesting these women that accuse Assange of sexual assault not get the justice they deserve. However, he is not formally charged. Sweden has not come to the UK or the Ecuador embassy to question him to decide if he should be charged. Assange did expose the world’s most powerful country and government officials want to prosecute him for doing something protected by the First Amendment—publishing. So, he understandably fears persecution.
Or, in the words of President Rafael Correa of Ecuador, “The main reason why Julian Assange was given diplomatic asylum was because his extradition to a third country was not guaranteed, in no way was it done to interrupt the investigations of Swedish justice over an alleged crime. In no way.” What Assange and WikiLeaks did by publishing documents is not a crime and so there is no justification for allowing him to be extradited to the US for a political trial.
This is actually a series I intend on keeping up. Each time liberals (as they call themselves in the bios of their Twitter accounts) get upset that Chris Hayes covers a subject that deserves attention but doesn’t help advance the cause of Obama 2012, I will highlight this outrage. Previously, I covered how upset a number of liberals were when Jeremy Scahill was on the show with others to talk about drones.
Sherriffruitfly and zander are irrational Obama cult of personality emoballoonbaggers of the lowest order. Expect more poutrage from these two.
Here’s a lecture by Correa where he explains his views on how “freedom of speech” is abused by corporate power, and some of the controversies he’s been involved in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOsc78e54To
Correa is a proponent of the idea that the corporate press is inherently undemocratic, i.e. manipulated by those with economic means for their own interests. He proposes that radio-electric frequencies owned by the state should be divided between private, state, and community (non-profit self-funded) media. The way I suspect it would work is that the private press would be a check on government; the state press a check on the private press; and the community press would be a check on both. (The law that would push this forward has been blocked by the opposition in the National Assembly for 3 years.)
There is a kernel of truth to the notion that Correa has a bad relationship with the private press in Ecuador, but the way this is characterized internationally is usually not accurate. This article is fair in my view:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/21/rights-groups-lost-plot-ecuador
wow, I hadn’t seen that. What a concept. And here in the US where the private/corporate press is all we have we can surely see what he means by the abuses
Can we get a bill like that????? Please please please??
yes apparently so…
curious that
You said:
“Assange cooperated with the prosecutor in the investigation when they both went to the police in the jurisdiction where they were. He answered all their questions. He took the test. The prosecutor declined to file a case. He told Assange he was free to go. As in free to leave the country. End of discussion.”
He wasn’t free to leave the country to avoid prosecution for sexual assault charges and you know it. Assange (who felt he was safely enclaved in a environment that would protect him from political issues) only wanted to escape being tried for raping two women.
Kevin, there were two women who claim to have been sexually assaulted in Sweden. I want you to explain to me why we should not be concerned about their issues.
Naomi Wolf has done an excellent article about irregularities with the rape allegations that make a very convincing case that the allegations are a trumped up ruse. markcripinmiller.com/2011/02/eight-big-problems-with-the-case-against-assange-must-read-by-naomi/wolf/
Sweden’s consistent unwillingness to find a way to question Assange that doesn’t involve having physical custody of him in Sweden, and the fact that Karl Rove is involved all combine to make it obvious that the US is pressuring Sweden to pursue a case that doesn’t pass the smell test.
Correa has lots of interesting ideas. For example, there’s not just a minimum wage anymore (traditionally low in Ecuador, and hard to simply increase for economic reasons.) There’s now something called a “dignified wage”. A corporation can pay minimum wage, but if they want to give out dividends to shareholders, they have to pay the dignified wage.
Amazingly, with elites paying more taxes than ever due to Correa’s efforts, unemployment is around 5%, the lowest it’s ever been in Ecuador.
Karl Rove has been under the radar in this deal but his involvement in some of the murkiest and more sinister shenanigans in the Beltway playground is not a closeted, well-kept secret. It’s just more proof that Karl likes to play rough and is, always ready to take the low road, so to speak. So much self-loathing and so little time to strike out against you own worst nightmares. ” Dreams can come true, it can happen to you, Karl, if your dead at heart. “
stevenrockford – joined fdl two months ago. no diaries. no friends. nine comments. all on julian assange’s perfidy.
he will not read naomi wolfe’s article. he doesn’t care for these two young women. he only cares that assange gets taken down. probably keyboarding from an OFA office in the upper midwest, in between writing postcards supporting blue dog candidates and arguing with his co-volunteers about why we need to go to war with Iran and why obama can’t possibly build up a credible case against the banksters.
Re some of the comments to KG’s great article here about how he might be over-reacting to the inattention or misinterpretation or whatever of many Democrats to the cases of Assange and Manning, let me add my 2 cents worth:
I’ve earned my creds, having confronted many Alaska Democrats and Democratic Party institutions on both Manning and Assange.
I asked Sen. Mark Begich to look into Manning’s torture, posted diaries here – even getting his predecessor, Mike Gravel, to beg Mark to be honest in his research. Got shut down.
When the Obama administration refused to allow the UN rapporteur look into Manning’s treatment, I announced this and asked for a moment of silence at a Democrat affiliated group’s weekly meeting. I got five seconds.
I get called every week, because the fundraisers I’ve held for Democrats bring in lotsa bucks, to hold something or another for Obama, or for a Dem who totally supports him. When I lay down my conditions – I’ll have petitions for attendees to sign in support of Manning or Assange – they find somebody else to do the gig.
I hope to organize one of the many occupations of Obama campaign HQs around the country on the day of his convention speech. I hope some of you reading Kevin’s diary consider doing the same.
Thanks for confirming my suspicions re stevenrockford. I did check out his history and noticed that he only showed up for Julian Assange and it was always about the sex allegations, but because I rarely post myself despite lurking since the Libby indictments, I didn’t want to cast any stones
It’s obvious you don’t truly care to examine & consider the historical record of Assange in Sweden. And you appear too agenda-driven to appreciate the necessity of Assange’s legal course. What you throw at the wall as “sexual assault”, began much-less dramatically; from the women’s inquiry as to have Assange take an STD test. For anyone else open to learning more about the saga, do check out this 46 minute documentary from ABC (Australian Broadcasting) “Sex,Lies and Julian Assange”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu4WCskniEc
Voter suppression – what are the Dems doing about it? Dem party apologists should be asking this question instead of accusing Chris Hayes. Voter suppression has been going on since early 2011. What were the Dems doing? Busy promoting democracy in Libya. Obama’s DoJ didn’t have time enough to go after pot dispensaries, anti-war activists and all that so no time for taking on voter suppression. More questions for D-pologists/O-pologists : what have the Dems been doing since 2000 when voter suppression by Repubs was obvious? Did they push for auto registration of voters who reach 18/get citizenship etc? Promote week-end voting? etc etc. But it is all the fault of Chris Hayes you know. Those poor Dem babies, they need to be tucked into bed and given a Teddy Bear.
thanks for the tip.
Another hit piece on Liberals. How original.
Who in their right mind would label Chris Hayes a Liberal? He is the penultimate purdy talking, it’s complicated, I’m the reasonable one, pro-regressive.
Every time pro-regressives want to tout their own self-worthy, self-righteousness, they attack Liberals. What is it with you people?
And BTW, Liberals do not approve of Obama’s policies by 98%.
Kevin. Hold fast to your principles. When the Collateral Murder video was published, I offered to play this for my peace group amigos: to a person they all refused to see it. When I confronted these folks with the subsequent attacks on Wikileaks, the PayPal and Mastercard shut down of accepting donations to Wikileaks, many of the same peace group folks attacked Assange personally, calling him names, based upon the propaganda from the major News media. My theory is that now that they have political power, that they do not want to be associated with the peace movement and the international human rights movement to hold armies accountable for war crimes. Personally, I think back to when they called me a traitor and a person of disorderly (read criminal) conduct when I refused to be drafted to go fight in Vietnam. There were free-fire zones in Vietnam and there were free-fire zones in Iraq, and all of the liberal, Democrat, Republican, Tea Party, whoever’s denial in the world, will not make those murders and war crimes go away. Journalists such as Julian Assange and yourself , deserve our support.
http://tomthumbsgallery.wordpress.com/2011/02/07/collateralmurder-video/
TomThumb
Ah, well then… tsuki.
Perhaps it were well to define what you consider that the term, “liberal”, means, to you?
And, comments replete with the phrase, “you people”, rather lump everyone together, implying that all are the same, don’t you consider?
If, indeed, your 98% figure is correct, and a link would be “nice”, then might it be asked; Of those 98% whom you say, ” … do not approve of Obama’s policies”, what percentage may be understood as intending to vote for him, nonetheless?
You have suggested that words are “purdy” things, implying that they are of little value, so then what is the “liberal value” of actions … if they imply and give “consent” to “more of the same?
DW
Assange to speak. Unable to find a viable livestream here in the US.
Here is a liveblog:
At The Guardian liveblog
This is working now:
http://occupystreams.org/item/occupy-london-stock-exchange
Thank you for that link, TomThumb.
Superb things being said … by Tariq Ali.
DW
Julian to be speaking in 10-15 minutes.
“bourgeois white anti-Obama emoprog” is a new one.
I, too, saw that on Mission Impossible in the ’60s. No doubt the bad guys have it covered already.
Or was it, The Avengers?
Ahh exactly what I came here looking for. Thanks Tom!
eliot has a front page up on fdl for us to crowdsource. see you there.
…excellent comment…thank you
The ones that take Obama’s side against Manning and the secrecy surrounding his “kill list” have forfeited the right to call themselves “liberal” or progressive, they are Obamacans, without any solid principles and morals. I support a lot of the things that he has done but there are a lot that he has fallen short and some that are utterly despicable. I will vote for him again but simply because Romney and Ryan will be a death sentense to the country.
I disagree with the statement “Most liberals in the United States seem to prefer ignoring what is happening with WikiLeaks” It amazes me whenever i read from any group that claims to speak for all in unsubstantiated statements. Part of our divisiveness in this country comes from the right or left pigeonholing each other into massive groups with simple predictable mindsets. So maybe the writers friends and acquaintances at gatherings or his blog commenters may agree with this statement. It is a disservice to the truth to extrapolate that agreement into how I as a card carrying liberal may feel. It is the same as saying “all” conservatives are gun loving, god fearing, money mongers and “all” liberals are gun hating, godless, socialist. It makes good newsertainment, but is far from reality. There is no purity test for liberals and I hope there never is.
…stay with it KG…thank you…
Question that needs to be asked — what did B.Manning and J.Assange and WikiLeaks do/tell that POTUS Obama did not want us to know/see? Why is Obama not being held to his Oath as POTUS? B.Manning and J.Assange showed and told what needed/needs to be known. POTUS Obama does not want them to?
Who should be held to legal,ethical and political examination in all this?
B.Manning? J.Assange? B.Obama? B.Obama wants to hide what Manning and Assange want/wanted to show us which was not good. POTUS Obama wants to hide that and make Manning and Assange out to be the bad guys? Who is being bad in all this? Who could easily stop this legal and political abuse ? Who needs to decide what side — good? bad? he wants to be on?
Sad and bad thing being it would seem POTUS Obama has decided.
B.Obama should know legal and political consequences with his decision.
The Obots/Dbots should/need to stop with the Obama blind loyalty.
It is no mistake, IMO, that Assange is accused of crimes of a sexual nature. The left–people who are inclined to up support Assange–are generally invested in issues of fairness and equality that are introduced by lack of consent for sexual intercourse. Sex crimes accusations divide the left, limit support for Assange, and shade our perceptions of his character. This is by design.
I know I’m a broken record repeating the idea of dividing the left, but the #uppers are exhibit A. Also, I’ve read negative feelings about Assange’s character over at Emptywheel, even if there is some approval of his work. The strategy o smear and divide has worked well.
Thanks for posting this link —- ironic that Correa stands up to the corporate media we complain about all the time and then we fall into the trap of accusing him of blocking freedom of expression.
Isn’t there enough fishiness about the sexual episode to put it into the pending file until all is known about the accusers? And. . . why Sweden handled it the way they did?
I see. Calling out the Liberals is okay, as this article does, but don’t say anything about the Progressives. That’s a no-no.
I am a 60′s unrepentant Liberal. And no, I will not be voting Obama. And neither will my Liberal friends. NDAA sealed that for us.
I think one reason sexual allegations are found so useful as smears (see the Murdoch papers, who did little else in the phone hacking days) is precisely that it leaps a lot of tripwires that even the relatively calm-minded string up to prevent untruth assaults.
After all, there really are both sexual bullies and people afraid to come forward against them but who deserve a just hearing, while the private nature of the usual (alleged) situation works against there being very much evidence, if there are no injuries, that is not open to argument. Argument, therefore, is just what discussions rapidly collapse to, and of course there is never way nor reason to stop arguing, especially in the agora.
That said, I’m having trouble getting an international incident out of what I’ve heard from this case apart, of course, from the political angle, and am even a bit hazy on just what the outstanding accusation in Sweden against Assange is supposed to be, even after reading here and elsewhere. I suspect that what we have here is an attempt to suppress certain behavior of the press and work around or somehow supercede the Pentagon Papers case.
They hate Assange, Manning, and Wikileaks for the same reasons Sen. Joe Lieberman hated Mortal Kombat: all the spine-plucking hits too close to home. And those assholes on Twitter with their busted and broken give-a-damns are nothing more than embracing the same attitudes championed by the rightwing Tali-Born Again during Bush/Cheney. The ones who kept bitching and pissing, “Gawd damn America-hatin’ liberal media keeps pumping the blood and guts instead of flags, ribbons, rebuilt schools happy Iraqi children!!” Translation: club us over the head with fluff and fuzzies so that Dear Leader (and his bubble of positively re-enforced Holier-Than-Thou narcissism) is shielded from dissent, raillery, ridicule, and … *gasp* … reality.
The only difference is they know deep inside their wretched little hearts that Assange, Manning, and Wikileaks was hocked, pawned, and house-wiggered by the Republican House-Wigger-In-Chief and – as those screen captures embarrassingly demonstrate – they don’t care. Such boneheaded Obama fedayeen want their “Big Republican Spooky” dope from Chris Hayes, they want it RIGHT-THE-FUCK-NOW, and require our whistleblowers to be purged off the news cycle so they can get their fix.
Otherwise they’re gonna smear their eye-sockets with Vicks Vapor Rub and weep, whimper, and rage like Glen fuckin’ Beck (or any common junky you see on A&E’s “Intervention”) until somebody amongst the “Professional Left” provides their jones by waffling and folding like lawn furniture in the face of their petulant temper tantrums.
My only advice stems from The Dixie Chicks; I’m never gonna be ready to make nice with such “liberals” and “progressives” because — like the rightwing malignant narcissists they emulate — they demand total unconditional loyalty from you, yet only offer conditional loyalty in return.