
Screen shot from Kevin Drum's appearance on PBS' "Bill Moyers Journal" in 2010
Every year, Salon‘s Alex Pareene publishes a hack list. The list is supposed to call attention to political commentators, newspaper columnists, political news show hosts and cable news pundits, who are constantly on television. They are listed and described rudely because there is no reason to respect people who are typically “wrong about literally everything” or who engage in “shameless sycophancy.” Yet, Mother Jones‘ Kevin Drum thinks a problem for liberals is that they need hacks. In fact, they do not have enough hacks.
Liberals will spend hours upon hours chastising some of the people, who’ve appeared on the Salon lists (or in Pareene’s column on hacks). Drum has written over ten posts in the past couple of years, where he calls attention to the National Review’s Jonah Goldberg for being a “conservative partisan hack.” Drum has ridiculed Fox News contributor John Stossel for cheerleading austerity and saying people should welcome the pain. Drum has written tens of thousands of words about New York Times “moderate conservative” columnist David Brooks, who regularly disguises reactionary ideas in establishment speak.
These are just a few examples. Part of Drum’s regular blogging seems to be regularly posting glib remarks about hacks that are laced with some nuggets of value. So, isn’t Drum’s introspective post about liberal hacks obviously hypocritical?
Conservatives Have More in Media Who Are Willing to Say Whatever to Advance the Party Line
Drum lays out his reasoning:
The hack gap is a liberal problem of long standing. Put simply, we liberals don’t have enough hacks. Conservatives outscore us considerably in the number of bloggers/pundits/columnists/talking heads who are willing to cheerfully say whatever it takes to advance the party line, no matter how ridiculous it is.
My conservative readers may scoff at this notion, but rarely has the hack gap been on such febrile display as it has since last Wednesday’s presidential debate. Ask yourself this: can you even imagine Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh tearing their hair out over a weak debate performance by Mitt Romney the way that liberals have been over President Obama’s? I can’t. [emphasis added]
Ignoring the fact that Limbaugh actually has been critical of Romney, it is obvious what Drum desires: liberals who can be counted on to adhere to a party line. He wants more liberals, who know their place, and show fealty or loyalty toward Obama. If they have to be ridiculous or lie to get into the conversation in the press, so be it. The party line of the Democratic Party up against the conservative line that the Republican Party wants to get across to all Americans will lessen the impact of the conservative media echo chamber.
Drum presents his view on how things would have happened “if liberals had their fair share of hacks” after the presidential debate last Wednesday:
…When the debate was over that wouldn’t have mattered. Conservatives would have started crowing about how well Romney did. Liberals would have acknowledged that Obama should have confronted Romney’s deceptions more forcefully, but otherwise would have insisted that Obama was more collected and presidential sounding than the hyperactive Romney and clearly mopped the floor with him on a substantive basis. News reporters would then have simply reported the debate normally: Romney said X, Obama said Y, and both sides thought their guy did great. By the next day it would barely be a continuing topic of conversation, and by Friday the new jobs numbers would have buried it completely…
Essentially, in Drum’s dream scenario, liberals would not pay attention to substance. They would analyze and make comments that only pay attention to appearance, like whether Obama looked more engaged than Romney, whether Romney was more rude than Obama, whether Romney made more eye contact than Obama, whether Obama enunciated the syllables of his words more clearly, whether Romney wore a colored tie that he should not have, whether Obama wore a colored tie that made him instantly look better than Romney, whether Romney’s hair needed a comb, whether Obama was more relaxed than Romney, whether Romney had to strain to seem likable, whether Romney seemed like he could be president, whether Romney appeared to have been coached more than Obama, etc—Babble which political junkies like Drum are always ready to eat up and digest.
“Liberals Went Batshit Crazy”
Drum goes on to declare, “Instead, liberals went batshit crazy.” Why did they go batshit crazy? Because after he posted his initial response to the debate, he turned on MSNBC to hear liberal or Democratic Party commentators saying “Obama did poorly” and “had delivered the worst debate performance.” He had betrayed “everything they thought was great about Obama.” Obama’s “entire second term” had been put “in jeopardy” and Romney was now the “instant front runner.” And, Drum recognizes it was acceptable for them to react more strongly than he did to Obama’s performance except, “What’s amazing is that, as near as I can tell, hardly any liberal pundits held back.”
These are his actual words, which read like an excerpt of an apology letter on behalf of the “Professional Left” that he wrote to the director of Obama for America to make it clear he did not think this was how liberals should act after every debate:
…Aside from paid campaign workers, no more than a handful decided to pretend that Obama had done well because, hey, that’s how the game is played, folks. Those refs aren’t going to work themselves, after all. Instead it was a nearly universal feeding frenzy.
You don’t normally see the temperamental difference between liberals and conservatives so dramatically on display. Most conservatives simply wouldn’t have been willing to slag their guy so badly. Liberals, by contrast, almost seemed to enjoy wallowing in recriminations. It was practically an Olympic tournament to see who could act the most agonized. As a friend just emailed me a few minutes ago, “I can’t tell you how many liberals I’ve had to talk off the ledge today.”… [emphasis added]
This is similar to what Democratic Party’s answer to Frank Luntz, George Lakoff, argues: if Democrats could talk better, frame their hollow or weak ideas better, use “moral values” against Republicans, they would win more often.
To recap, this is some of what was said on MSNBC: host Chris Matthews said Romeny had said, “If you have a pre-existing condition, anybody with one gets coverage,” which he had not been saying and Obama did not challenge him; host Rachel Maddow argued, “Whether or not Mitt Romney is going to be in trouble for having gotten away with a lot of stuff that’s not true or whether it`s the president’s problem that he didn’t make him answer”; host Ed Schultz said to White House senior advisor David Plouffe, “The biggest story since the convention has been the 47 percent. None of this was mentioned tonight by the president. Clear openings to put Mitt Romney on the defensive. Why didn’t he do that?”; MSNBC contributor Howard Fineman stated the debate was “a classic case of a president kind of showing up and figuring that because he’s president, he gets extra points.”
Be a Cog in the Machine, Liberals
What should be a strength is a tremendous misdeed because Democratic Party loyalists and Obama supporters find warranted criticism to be toxic. It enters the echo chamber, meshes with reactionary Tea Party outrage toward the president and only further complicates Obama’s ability to campaign (or, prior to the election, govern). Rather than accept criticism might strengthen Obama’s campaign and show that his base is not just going to vote for him but also compel him to address some serious issues before going to vote on Election Day, criticism shows one is not a team player. Criticizing Obama is going off-script. Liberal pundits should not be confused and think elections are anything more than a public relations industry (as Noam Chomsky has suggested). They should be the cog in the machine of this industry, as they are expected to be.
Drum actually wrote a fine piece of journalism back in 2010 that addressed how Wall Street owns Washington “lock, stock and barrel.” But Drum would not challenge the president on his decision to load his staff up with people, who had ties to banks or financial institutions, and not prosecute any executives for crimes they committed that led to the 2008 economic collapse. He would rather engage in self-censorship during this election.
To end this craven piece of commentary, Drum turns it up to eleven:
In the end, I doubt this will make a big difference. The polls were always going to tighten up a bit after the huge post-convention, post-47% runup for Obama, so I don’t attribute as much of his recent poll decline to the debates as most people do. Obama has plenty of time to come back, and the fundamentals — his incumbency, the economy, and Romney’s stiffness as a candidate — still suggest a modest Obama win in November. But if I’m wrong, and this does make a big difference, it will be 100% attributable to the hack gap. Without that, Obama’s debate performance would barely have registered. This was a completely avoidable debacle.
Yes, an Obama loss in November will not be because he did not distinguish himself from Romney. It will not be because Obama ran a poor campaign and Romney ran a better campaign. It will not be because of voter suppression. It will not be because Obama took his base for granted. It will be because the Democratic Party does not have enough liberal hacks to go on television and behave like sycophants.
*
The commentary is remarkable, but it is not remarkable solely because he is arguing for commentators (like himself) to be more flattering in their coverage, something he has criticized “conservative partisan hacks” for doing. It is additionally remarkable because it shows how Drum sees himself as a person who understands the political game first and a frank and honest writer or journalist second.
For example, Drum commented on whether the Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD) should be broken up so that third party presidential candidates could participate in the debates. Now, the CPD is a symptom of the supremely corrupt system of politics in America controlled by the Democratic and Republican Parties, which wrested control of the debates out of the hands of the League of Women Voters after Walter Mondale ran against Ronald Reagan because they did not like eighty of the moderators proposed for debates during the ’84 election.
Drum writes the problem with the presidential debate on October 3 was not the CPD, which keeps third party candidates out, because, on the issues where he concedes Obama and Romney are similar, there would have been no discussion. Issues like “penal policy” were not topics chosen for the debate. Plus, the real problem was the moderator.
First, the moderator is chosen by the two political parties. If it was not controlled by a bipartisan organization, which acts as a partisan group toward third party or independent candidates, Jim Lehrer may not have been the moderator. Second, “penal policy” could be discussed in the context of the economy, if one is not solely focused on debt and markets when discussing economic issues. Mass incarceration is a factor in low-income or poor communities and part of why the communities are poor. Third, Drum’s belief that Obama and Romney have more differences than others who think they have less differences and many similarities is no justification for keeping a person out of a debate like Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson or Green Party candidate Jill Stein, who are both on enough ballots in the United States to win enough of the electoral vote to assume the presidency.
Drum concedes Johnson would be a valuable inclusion in the upcoming debate on foreign policy but, he adds, “I wouldn’t expect too much from this. Ron Paul participated in all of the Republican primary debates, and he didn’t noticeably move the public opinion needle on foreign policy issues. I’m not sure Gary Johnson would either.” Does anyone reasonably expect Romney or Obama to stand up on stage and “move the public opinion needle” on any issues? The whole point of surviving the debate is to come off the least controversial. Also, this cannot be a criteria for whether any candidate is included, as it would hinge upon arbitrary or prejudicial judgments.
But maybe Johnson or other third party candidates should get a shot, Drum writes. What does the “hivemind” think of this? Drum asks:
The current threshold is that candidates have to score at least 15% in selected polls to be invited to the debates, and this year no one has qualified. Gary Johnson is around 3% nationally. But maybe that’s the wrong threshold. I’m violently opposed to a really small threshold, like 1% or so, because it has the potential to turn the debates into a circus. (Well, more of a circus.) The public really does deserve to get a good close look at the two major-party candidates, since one of them is certain to win the election, and having half a dozen true-believing obsessives on stage doesn’t help that.
So here’s another idea: the debates should always feature three candidates. Two of them would be the major party candidates and the third would be whoever polls the best among all the minor party candidates. If there were literally no minor party candidates who even appeared on enough state ballots to be serious contenders, then maybe we’d be stuck with two debaters after all. Otherwise, though, we’d always make room for at least one more. Maybe the debate commission would commission its own polls, or maybe it would rely on existing polls. Either way, it would publish the ground rules, and a week before the first debate it would announce who the best performing third-party candidate was. [emphasis added]
This is political bigotry. Drum is advocating there be tiers in elections. Those who win the major party ticket would have clear access to the debates. Those who win on a minor party or independent ticket would, even if they pass certain thresholds necessary to make them viable, have to compete against other minor party candidates for the one spot given to a third party candidate to show up and represent what Drum deems the non-mainstream. He wants to entrench a policy of discrimination into elections that appears to be incredibly unconstitutional.
Drum makes this ridiculously insulting offer to those who champion democracy because he is part of the brain trust of liberals, who believes third party candidates are spoilers. If one votes for a third party candidate, they are complicit in an effort that could potentially cost one of the major party candidates the election and lead to a war of aggression or the rise of more right wing policies.
He recently published a rather glib blog post, “So How Did the Whole ‘Lesser of Two Evils’ Thing Work Out For You in 2000?”:
…if you’re an actual lefty agonizing over whether you can possibly support the lesser of two evils this year, I have nine words for you: How did that work out for you in 2000? Even if you assume that Al Gore would have passed the Patriot Act; and invaded Afghanistan; and given the NSA free rein to engage in wholesale amounts of warrantless surveillance; and approved the torture of enemy combatants — even if you assume all that, do you think we would have invaded Iraq if Al Gore had been president? That didn’t just happen, after all. It’s not as if the public was baying for Saddam Hussein’s scalp. It happened only thanks to a very determined effort by Dick Cheney and his fellow neocon sympathizers, and it happened only after a very deliberate, months-long marketing campaign from the Bush White House….
Essentially, according to Drum and other liberals, Ralph Nader is responsible for the Iraq War, for the lives of innocent civilians and troops who died. He has this blood on his hands because he ran as a candidate and siphoned off votes, which Gore was entitled to receive. It completely ignores the fact that tens of thousands of voters were disenfranchised, voting systems and procedures failed (i.e. the butterfly ballot), the US Supreme Court declared Bush the winner and there were Democrats who voted for Bush or did not vote in the election at all. (Not to mention, it was Gore’s election to lose, but he did not win his home state of Tennessee.) Additionally, it suggests Nader had no right to be a candidate and attempt to challenge the two-party system in 2000 and shows a clear contempt for democracy.
As George Farah of OpenDebates.org has said, third party candidates face tremendous barriers in elections that include “discriminatory ballot access, scant media coverage, loyalties of the political class in the voting public, [and] enormous campaign finance disparities.” But, for someone like Drum, who thinks liberal pundits should know their place, these barriers make his life easier because he does not have to confront the transformation of the Democratic Party into a corporate party. He does not have to tend to issues that candidates like Barack Obama intentionally choose to be silent about, which his campaign ensures are off the table for discussion.
In conclusion, to tie this all into Drum’s piece on the “hack gap,” this all shows the gutlessness of liberals. Someone like Drum should be willing to engage in discussion on the responsibility one has to shaping political and social cultures and policies in a society. They should encourage any push for a future, where political elitism is replaced by more democracy, where the people at the bottom are not civic adolescents but have much more ability to be part of the decision-making process. These pushes would include the pursuit of meaningful reforms like or similar to majority elections, changes to ballot access laws or instant run-off voting, open debates, campaign finance reform, etc. Unfortunately, what Americans get with people like Drum is reflexive zeal based in a partisan reality.
Those who most care about this country devalue elections by letting pundits choose the issues that matter. And, to the extent that citizens do have choice or agency in US elections, hacks—especially the kind Drum thinks the media need to hire—cheapen elections by covering elections as elite managers of democracy and instead of fellow citizens of the United States.



57 Comments

Wow Kevin, you sure are a proud member of the rancid sector of the far left.
#TeamRancid
Clearly Drum can’t even see the real issues facing our democracy. Framing it as Liberal v. Conservative rather than Rich v. non-rich (99%). The difference between a bleeding heart liberal Rich Democrat and a Ultra-Conservative Rich Republican is only meaningful at the cocktail party in someone’s giant Manhattan apartment or mansion in the Hamptons (or John Kerry’s French farmhouse the Heinzes had moved stone by stone to Idaho for their hunting lodge).
I also want to note that I think Kevin Drum’s line of thinking here will see to it that alliances are never made between the left and the right. Congress has a current approval rating of about 10%, which is incredibly alarming. It is proof positive that most people today are fully aware that the country is in trouble, that it does not function properly, that the system is deeply corrupt, and that they are being shafted by pretty much everybody in both major parties. They know they are being hosed. Perhaps they are ignorant about who is doing it, how power really works, and who exercises it, but they are not stupid. They just need information, and they want to know. The current left and right hackery obfuscates and is a major part of the problem. Calls for increased hackery are not a solution.
Kevin, don’t you hear the ironic tone in this? I mean, I think he’s half-serious, half-joking, and I know the feeling well.
Getting down to the bottom line, we are losing and the rightwingnuts are winning because their people…let’s call ‘em hacks…will say whatever the party or movement needs them to say. They get the memo, and they follow the talking points. They stick to the talking points. They cannot be shaken from the talking points.
One of our problems (call “us” liberal, progressive, whatever) is that because we tend to think for ourselves, and we most definitely do “do nuance,” we not only don’t care whether there are talking points, we never come near the talking points. Our people…our hacks…are up there giving their own opinions, complete with nuance and reference to facts.
Once, in a former somewhat rational, logical world of politics and public debate, this was what it took to “win.” No longer.
Yet we are still using the same tactics. Thus, people who are not liberals, including those vaunted independents, see us as not clearly “standing” for anything. We not only don’t speak with one voice, we speak with many voices.
This is intrinsically good.
But given that we have been losing the larger war, while winning a few battles, over decades, and the importance of stopping that loss, we gotta do something different!
So,I can’t agree with your implied criticism of Kevin Drum, at least in this instance.
And for heaven’s sake, turn your sense of humor/irony button on, and read the piece you quoted again.
His post is supposed to be ironic? Really? I was gauging the reaction to it and watched the link get passed around on Twitter. A number of people took this seriously, not because it was ironic.
Salon‘s Joan Walsh also wrote a response. She did not regard it as irony.
Kevin Drum has written a follow-up. He stands by what he argued on the “hack gap.”
Message to Drum:
Ds have plenty of hacks. It’s just that once in a while one’s performance is so bad that even one’s hacks can’t defend it.
Great post. Exhuming the dead bodies of the Democratic hack-zombies!!
Obama loses all by himself by embracing policies which people find repulsive, like cutting Social Security and offering to raise eligibility age for Medicare two years.
Nobody is going to embrace “poverty and misery for all in old age”. Mr. Obama, that is a losing strategy which you alone have embraced!!
Let me be Devil’s Advocate for a moment:
Do you think he’s right when he says, in essence, that conservatives win because they are willing to lie shameless and to close ranks around one another in the manner of Ronald Reagan’s famous Eleventh Commandment?
Set aside whether what he said is illegal, immoral, or fattening. Is it true that Republicans win because they are more willing to do the Big Lie? If so, what does that mean for electoral politics?
As I said before the debate, it was nothing but a beauty contest. Only the left pays any attention to WHAT is being said. Most people pay attention to HOW it’s said. They also looks at the clothes, the attitude and, of course, the color of the skin. If people had actually been listening, Mitt would have been booed off the stage at every appearance since. Didn’t happen. The substance simply didn’t matter.
Kevin Drum has been reported to be mushy on Social Security ‘reform’. In retrospective, in this post he endorsed the Diamond-Orzag plan of higher payroll tax and a less than ten percent cut in benefits. He must have had some ‘inside information.”
A third party being a valid option only if it will win is denying the history of third parties in American politics. This argument that third parties take votes from one of the major parties and therefore effect the outcome of the election seems more grounded in feelings than facts. Jill Stein has argued that Nader voters were voters from both parties and voters that would have stayed home if he wasn’t on the ballot not Gore leaning progressives who decided in the voting booth to “waste” their vote on Nader. If enough informed voters vote third party this election they will become a factor in the next election and I am seeing more and more commitments to voting third party as the disillusionment grows for both staunch Democrats and Republicans.
Yeah that’s kinda weird. He has said as much before. Drum lionizes Obama — and isn’t “bridging the partisan differences” what he ran on?
Should we be talking about “electoral politics” or actual, participatory democracy, PW?
Do you imagine that if the “liberals” shamelessly engage in fear-mongering, in lying, in deceit, that, somehow things will “improve”, that there will be “balance”, that democracy will miraculously arise like the first part of your name, from the ashes of a fried and toasted civil society, now bereft of the Rule of Law, of common decency and any evidence of moral principle?
Hacks are hacks, they are mouthpieces of corrupt suasion, they are the social equivalent of “lobbyists”, they are propagandists and members of the carrion class (no offense to buzzards and other USEFUL scavengers).
“Electoral politics” have been gamed, cynically and deliberately, from the beginning of this nation, joining that “game” merely allows it to continue to dominate and to rule unchallenged.
Great post, Kevin, much appreciated.
Go Team Rancid!!!
DW
Sure, he might have a point. And to the extent that he does, I find myself wanting to talk like Jesse Ventura and say, “Is this the Crips versus the Bloods?”
Or, is this like a wrestling match? Not a college or high school match but a WWE match.
I mean, it’s mafia-style politics that Drum is submitting himself to and suggesting fellow liberals participate in.
That is correct. Rocky Anderson has argued this much as well. Both of these candidacies excite people fed up by both political parties, who will not vote for either Obama or Romney.
Part of the reason the right wing hacks are winning is that they offer “something” – it’s mostly lies, hate and bigotry, and a bunch of resonant ideas/buzzwords like freedom, small businesses, and bootstraps, that don’t hold up against reality.
But it is something and that something fills a void left by liberals, who have reduced liberalism to railing (as they should) against the lies, hate, and bigotry), but not offering much substance. Either out of need to support Obama and the Dems in Congress, or because of what they now believe, a whole lot of substance is off the table for debate, like opposition to war, torture, and the security state. They may oppose “throwing Granny off the cliff” and they may even at times oppose the slow death of the Democratic version of austerity.
But are they talking about community, government as our way to take care of each other, social and economic justice? You can’t win an argument against “Freedom, USAUSA, scary brown people” with raising the retirement age a little more slowly, or by countering voucher-care with insurance-exchange-care.
That’s why we need a third party, or a real revolt in the Democratic party, or Occupy, or I don’t know what, to be a real voice for something, not just a critique of the right.
And we need #TeamRancid for sure!
Superb comment, marym!
Exquisitely well-put.
DW
“bridging the partisan differences” could be translated into abandon traditional Democratic principles for blind loyalty to the Head Democrat.
Another “part” of the reason right wing hacks win is they represent the owners of the MSM. We don’t have a left wing media bias anymore and haven’t for many years. I see comments on this blog using the word entitlements the way the right wing hacks have framed it into a pejorative meaning like welfare mom. No uber wealthy progressive is buying media outlets as far as I know so who in the MSM speaks for liberals and progressive? It is the same cast of characters pre-approved by the Corporate owners.
Kevin Drum is not a “progressive” blogger, he is a mainstream media maven. He knows which side his bread is buttered on. Haven’t read him for years, although he occasionally makes a good point.
And he has one here. Republicans hacks do stay on message better than Democrat hacks. To the uninformed, unthinking masses consistency is probably next to Godliness. But the message panders to their base. Which is pretty base.
Obama would never pander to his lefty base, because we’re fucking retards, and because his corporate supporters wouldn’t like it, and because he wants to continue to be a member of the VSP club. So he doesn’t really have a message to stick to other than, “I’m a little better than the other guy.”
That’s not a very inspiring message, but that’s what he delivered at the first debate. Who’s going to stay on that message, Kevin?
It amazes me that the Democratic Party is supported by some of the nation’s best trial lawyers–people who make a living arguing cases in front of juries–yet the party’s top-tier elected officials and strategists are blithering incompetents who can’t sell snowblowers after a blizzard.
As may be, tammanytiger, however, that “top-tier” certainly, with great “certainty”, can “shovel” it …
;~DW
You beat me to it with the “Crips and Bloods” analogy.
And if I’m going to join a gang in the first place, I’m not going to join one that tries to find “common ground” with the other gang–even though the other gang has a reputation for slitting throats first and talking later.
Do you know if there will be any polling done by reputable pollsters including specific third party candidate like Rocky or Jill? I saw a poll with Stein at 2% but that was awhile ago and not sure how valid. Stein has qualified for matching funds and is on almost every ballot so I was wondering if you see her getting any attentionn from pollsters or pundits for that matter. I’m hoping Other is on the rise as a choice in November.
So true TT and Thank You Kevin G for this and it’s just another reason I’m voting Green. Hell even some of my conservative neighbors might just because they know mitten will finish off Main Street.
it seems to me that the problem there is no one in the MSM who talks about progressive values and how these values can help the counrty and people to move forward. Instead we get Democratic supporters who are more concerned about supporting the DNC. We know Hannity and gang are full of it but they are attacking a group of Dems pols who have no values. What is needed are progressive “hacks” that will stand up and talk about progressives values and will kick the Dems and GOP. Don’t need or want Dems hacks
Sadly, here we are. This is the MSM for main street because a real progressive will not appear on CNN, Fox, etc. So hack away. Kevin has become a first class hack IMO.
What that means is that people don’t give a damn about following politics. Which may be more generally the truth anyway.
People will follow entertainment phenoms and not bother with what really impacts their lives. Right now, there is a pennant race going. To many people, that is probably more interesting than the “debates.”
Noam Chomsky’s quote, which I reference in my post:
I have a good deal of sympathy with your,viewpoint. It seems to track back to the lesser of two evils idea. But it goes like this. Lose and you lose maybe three supreme court justices. Lose and the hit to SSMM is very likely to be much worse. Lose and there is likely no maybe about ME wars. Lose and the minimum wage may be repealed. And for those who believe the left will come roaring back in four years remember those supreme court justices. I have not said anything about Obamacare since so many here dislike it. But when it is repealed it won’t come back for a generation.
She was at 2% in a CNN poll 9/1. The 10/1 poll had her at 3%. The link is a PDF. LINK.
Say, bluedot12, that is pretty “good”.
Is that truthiness or fear-mongering?
It doesn’t seem to be “selling” exceptionally well, and I suspect that Kevin’s quote of Chomsky, @30, just might give you a hint as to why many at FDL are not “buying” …
Hack away.
Selling fear is all the rage.
DW
Thanks this helps. So surging in the polls would be accurate?
I’m going with that.
I suppose there are no women out there who would worry about what is next under the right wing religious wing nuts? It is nice to be so brave when you feel insulated.
There is no “hack gap” (esp. w Drum in play) — but there is a serious “decent person deficiency” in candidates of the D/R squad.
I’m beginning to believe the people who ignore politics and stick with sports and entertainment may be more enlightened than those who still believe thay have any say in the electoral process.
Kevin Drum’s statements reinforce that belief.
Me too!
(I also replied to your comment about MSM, agreeing with you, but the internet mice ate it a couple of times.)
Keep “selling”, bluedot12.
And don’t assume that any one of us feel “insulated”.
And bravery is NOT about trying to frighten others into doing what YOU think should be done.
Try honest reason.
For example, how do you expect things to change if you vote for more of the same?
Do YOU dare consider doing anything differently?
The people and the world are being exploited by the legacy parties, the uniparty and the economic system of this nation … and NOTHING which you can say, or threaten, changes those facts, as many thoughtful human beings here, more every day it seems, have come to seriously and deeply realize.
You do have a right, of course, to your opinion, but trying to use fear to “sell” it is rather odious and quite unsuccessful.
However, have at it.
Regardless of which legacy candidate “wins”, the people and the planet will lose, until and unless the people, the many, find the courage and the stamina, and are willing to pay the price of changing it.
You offer fear. You seek to frighten.
I suggest that it will take blood, sweat, and tears, to assure our humane future.
Not because I wish for such things, but because that is what will really be required of us, all of us … to secure that future and the consistent vigilance to keep it.
Real courage demands more than rhetoric.
Far more.
DW
So happy you feel I am entitled to my opinion. But I always thought I did anyway. Good luck with the blood, sweat and tears.
Hacks. Do we start a cold war with Hacks.
In thisss corner we have Kev “The Hack” gosztoooolaaaaa, Throws off cape and dances in circle with fists in the air.
The left will never own large MSM. Best we can hope for is what we got here. Thanks Kevin.
We should distinguish between liberals and Democrats.
Democrats have a party line, but liberals do not have a party that represents them.
Why lie when the facts support you? If you are Obama, then you are lying because you are a secret Republican.
There are hacks that are afraid that conservative bullies will accuse them of being part of the “liberal media.” Thus, they try to present themselves as objective by making the false claim that both sides do the same things in equal measure. However, these are not the people that liberals should seek to impress. It is important to maintain credibility so that we can share good information among ourselves and with anyone that is willing to consider what we have to say.
I agree with Joan Walsh’s point that Republican pundits are willing to trash their candidate when things go badly. I can recall grumbling about how Bush may have destroyed the Republican party for a generation, how Sarah Palin cost McCain the election, how Romney’s campaign was a disaster.
“Conservatives outscore us considerably in the number of bloggers/pundits/columnists/talking heads who are willing to cheerfully say whatever it takes to advance the party line, no matter how ridiculous it is.”
“Us”? Who is us? Our republican light president and other prominent democrats can’t run to the right fast enough. What do they need liberal bloggers for anyway? They don’t like liberals anyway.
Well, bluedot12, you’ve my very best wishes.
And, I most sincerely hope that you might not, ever, shed any blood, sweat, or tears, that no one does.
However, we are NOT, any of us, going to be, unless the legacy parties magically vanish, along with their endless wars on humanity, the planet, and reason, ABLE to evade the pain which those parties intend … in VERY “bipartisan” and deliberate fashion, to inflict upon us.
It is not just women who are at risk, nor just the old and the poor, nor just the young, nor even the little children … it is ALL of us … we many who no longer matter to the Masters of the Universe and the Powers that Be who, daily, kowtow to the “interests” of money and of power.
Which reality you obviously, in part, partly, and, if in somewhat a “partisan” fear, already well grasp …
So then, let us wish everyone, and each other, the very best of luck, shall we?
DW
There’s really no reason to come at bluedot12 so aggressively.
Right, we’re all card-carrying members of the Professional Left to them. Or something like that.
We’re getting into labels. What do people who call themselves liberal believe? What do progressives believe? Are liberals and progressives different? Are the names interchangeable?
Before my time with FDL, I tried to fashion a valid answer in this post on why progressivism fails.
I think anyone who understands is threatening to them.
Well, were the Democrats that supported Jim Crow liberals, progressives or neither? (Ann Coulter would say “both.”)
I suppose the terms liberal and progressive are interchangeable and a matter of choice.
Thank you, Kevin. ( I had a post, but it has disappeared when I pressed ‘Submit Comment.’)
Not sure I can reprise. I related the hackery question and media refusal to consider third parties as needing to be in the conversation to an excellent article by Henry Giroux in yesterday’s counterpunch.org, “The Disappearance of Public Intellectuals”:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/10/08/the-disappearance-of-public-intellectuals/
This is not as pompous as it sounds as the essay elaborates on the neoliberal takeover not only of universities but of our public schools as well. For which reason, it is not the ignorant American public, nor those advocating that third parties be considered in the conversation that will be responsible for what happens in November. It is the disinformers.
To end on a happy note, here is the quote Professor Giroux ends his essay with:
“We must do and think the impossible. If only the possible happened, nothing more would happen. If I only did what I can do, I wouldn’t do anything.” [Jacques Derrida]
Kevin, for all of us who vote third party and then get beaten up for more than a decade because some one like Al Gore didn’t get in the White House, will you be so kind to fashion a piece that blames everyone who stayed home and didn’t vote at all instead of us third-party voters who voted our conscience
for whenjust in case Obama loses? Would much appreciate it.Wow, when did Kevin Drum leave Mother Jones for Mother F*cker? That’s some of the most idiotic “journalism” I’ve ever read.
I almost expect this to be followed by Drum’s announcing that he’s joining a monastery and taking a vow of silence. That “column” was so stupid that it only works as a resignation (from the public debate) speech.
Being charitable, perhaps Drum recognizes the futility of working with the corporate MSM, or not – maybe he’s jealous that his colleague, David Corn, broke the story of the campaign with the telling of the 47% video.
Stupid column or not, it led to Gosztola’s excellent post and an interesting, informative, and thought provoking discussion.
It was hard for me to take the rest of Drum’s article seriously when I read that part. It was only two or three weeks ago that the Beltway establishment right press caused Ann Romney to practically cry on a radio show about the way Mitt was being savaged by Noonan, Brooks, Kristol and Frum, among others. Before the debate, the DailyKos had a post a day that began with something along the following lines: “You know it’s bad when Peggy Noonan . . . ” It’s not like that was ancient history.
Not that Romney didn’t deserve the criticism; he did. Just as Obama deserved to be ridiculed for his crappy debate performance.
I’ll write a post that holds Obama and liberals/progressives responsible for losing if Obama loses to Romney. They will be the ones responsible. I’ll point out that millions of votes were blocked from being counted through voter suppression efforts.
If Obama loses—and anyone blames third party voters, I’ll be ready with a post.
Kevin who?