One hour and a half was the time the two campaigns agreed upon for the foreign policy debate. They had a moderator, Bob Schieffer, who would ask all questions from the point of view that America is justified in whatever it does so long as it does it. When and how to do it would be the discussion, not why or whether it was legal, moral or humane.
Specifically, interventions, wars, imposing sanctions on countries or support for countries like Israel subjecting a population to policies of apartheid would not be questioned. The candidates would not be asked to explain why these were acceptable acts. They would both agree the acts were reasonable in some scenarios but would disagree on the extent to which such acts should be taken.
GOP candidate Mitt Romney and President Barack Obama sat without any candidates on stage that should have been present, like Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson or Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein. The two would have challenged policies of interventionism in Libya. They would have called for a more swift end to war in Afghanistan. Both would have been more cautious on what America should do in Syria. They would have called for significant reduction to America’s military and security presence in the world. But, being on a majority of state ballots is not enough to get one in debates controlled by a commission run by two individuals with ties to the party machines of the Republican and Democratic Party. Candidates are also subject to a criteria that requires them to poll 15% in a poll, where pollsters may not even ask “likely voters” if they would vote Johnson or Stein because they are not included.
It was the final debate of three debates. The Commission on Presidential Debates and the two campaigns negotiated a limit on debates because the country cannot have elections with too much political discussion.
A secret contract (which leaked) specifically outlined neither campaign would participate in any other event or appear on any program on television, radio or the Internet where they might be participating in something that could be considered a debate. After the night’s debate, they would not face national scrutiny from citizens focused on their positions—their similarities, their reversals or flip-flops, their differences or rather their lack of differences.
Nonetheless, it was too difficult for the two men to talk about the topics Schieffer planned to have the candidates address (topics which were made public moments before the two were to go on stage). They could not stay on the topics of Afghanistan, America’s longest war, Israel and Iran, China or what Schieffer called “the changing Middle East and the new face of terrorism.” They would not have to discuss Latin America, Africa, Europe or Russia. They would be able to get away with a discussion that did not touch upon the War on Drugs or America’s (lack of) respect for human rights and the rule of law in the world. In any case, they veered away from foreign policy back to talking points on domestic policy raised in the second debate.
“Let me get back to foreign policy,” Schieffer uttered after Obama and Romney talked about small businesses and what US businesses need to do to compete. Romney would not abide. He had a point about education in the United States to make.
Class size became a focus of this single scheduled debate on foreign policy. Again, Schieffer tried to pull the candidates back to US foreign policy:
Let me — I want to try to shift it, because we have heard some of this in the other debates. Governor, you say you want a bigger military. You want a bigger Navy. You don’t want to cut defense spending. What I want to ask you, we’re talking about financial problems in this country. Where are you going to get the money?
It was a good faith attempt to steer the discussion back to where it should have been. The two discussed national defense spending, which does have an obvious connection to US foreign policy.
The final section on China was somewhat of an escape for the candidates. They could talk about jobs and the economy in terms of what they thought the US needed to do to beat China.
With all the issues and topics in foreign policy that Americans should have heard discussed, the political show was a total sham. One can downplay the horridness of it all by saying voters do not make decisions based on what they hear in a foreign policy debate. That should not matter. The candidates had one hour and a half to not only discuss where they stood but, if they had any decency, to also inform the public on what is happening in the world so they can know why America is involved in Afghanistan, Syria, Libya or other countries. This did not happen. Perhaps, that was intentional—to preserve the culture of elitism in this country which reinforces the notion that those in power decide foreign policy matters without attention to the views of citizens.
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There is one specific part of the debate that deserves attention. It could be considered a grassroots victory because activists had mobilized to urge Schieffer to ask a question on drones.
It was not asked in the way that human rights advocates may have wanted it to be asked, but in the third and final presidential debate, Schieffer asked Mitt Romney directly, “What is your position on the use of drones?”
Romney answered:
MR. ROMNEY: Well, I believe that we should use any and all means necessary to take out people who pose a threat to us and our friends around the world. And it’s widely reported that drones are being used in drone strikes, and I support that entirely and feel the president was right to up the usage of that technology and believe that we should continue to use it to continue to go after the people who represent a threat to this nation and to our friends.
He celebrated the use of drone warfare. He said nothing about Obama’s decision to assert presidents should have the power to engage in state-sanctioned murder by having kill lists. And, he essentially confirmed he would use drones like Obama has used drones if he was elected president.
Though Obama was not asked the question directly (because Schieffer accepted his position was already known), Obama was given a chance to respond to Romney’s answer. He avoided any mention of drones:
PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, keep in mind our strategy wasn’t just going after bin Laden. We’ve created partnerships throughout the region to deal with extremism — in Somalia, in Yemen, in Pakistan. And what we’ve also done is engage these governments in the kind of reforms that are actually going to make a difference in people’s lives day to day, to make sure that their government aren’t corrupt, to make sure that they are treating women with the kind of respect and dignity that every nation that succeeds has shown, and to make sure that they’ve got a free market system that works.
Obama referenced three countries where the United States is using drones yet avoided saying anything about his use of drones as president. He, instead, used the word “partnerships.”
These “partnerships” have involved the alienation of populations. For example, when President Abdu Rabbu Mansour Hadi ran unopposed and won 99% of the vote, the US supported him because he would continue to support US drone operations like his predecessor, Ali Abdullah Saleh. He would ignore anger among the Yemeni population and how drones were breeding sympathy for al Qaeda. He would, after a September strike that killed twelve civilians, say he “personally approved every attack.”
In Pakistan, the Obama administration has shown unremitting indifference to political leaders and the public’s opposition to drones. They have basically driven a wedge between security agencies in government and individuals, who are supposed to represent the Pakistani people. The continued use of drones has had a great impact on the civilian population, breeding fear, anxiety and distrust.
As part of the coverage by “Democracy Now!” aimed at expanding the debate (or broadcasting an actual debate), Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein and Justice Party candidate Rocky Anderson appeared. They responded to the drones question in the debate:
ANDERSON: Once again, we see the Republicans and Democrats joining together, colluding and advocating for killings by unmanned drones in four sovereign nations – Yemen, Afghanistan, Somalia and Pakistan. How could that not drive up the hatred and hostility toward the United States and undermine our long term security?
And for those Democrats who have lined up blindly behind the president simply because he’s wearing a “D” on his jersey and he’s on their team — Imagine if this were President Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld sitting in the Oval Office going through baseball card-like biographies and deciding who is going to live and who is going to die knowing thati n the process there are going to be hundreds if not thousands of innocent men, women and children killed along the way. It is absolutely immoral. It’s got to come to an end. And it’s for we the American people to demand it because these two and their political parties are not going to do the job.
STEIN: No matter who is in the Oval Office, if it is not one of us, we need to be out on the streets, even if there is someone with a “D” on his shirt who is continuing these wars, who is continuing the drone wars, which we’ve just been told are about to expand into north Africa now as well under the auspices of the CIA that has requested a major expansion in drone capacity. No matter who is sitting in the Oval Office, we need to be standing up and demanding the kind of foreign policy we deserve; that is, a foreign policy based on international law and human rights.
The drone wars are dreadful. It’s said that they are actually hitting about 2% of their victims, in fact, are thought to be key operates in al Qaeda or associated groups. So, the vast majority are not significant operatives. When Obama talks about creating coalitions with Yemen and Somalia, whatever his coalitions are doing, unfortunately, they are vastly overwhelmed by what his drones are doing because we are seeing people, in fact, being driven into the camp of the avowed enemy of the United States because of the impact of these drone wars…
Were the Commission on Presidential Debates a democratic organization that truly promoted openness, fairness and freedom in elections, at least Stein would have been on stage (along with Gary Johnson) to discuss the issue of drones more comprehensively. The two candidates would not have been able to get away with simply saying they supported drones without addressing legal or moral problems the technology has created, how drones are likely to inspire blowback against the United States and what the policy is doing to complicate political tension in countries already rife with conflict or violence.



20 Comments

Thank you, Kevin, for this coverage and analysis.
In all the hoopla and mindless celebration around “Who won?” of “these two men”, this necessary dose of reality might well be missed or overlooked.
I hope that it shall be front-paged.
DW
On foreign policy we have one candidate, Robamney.
Considering the degree to which foreign policy has shaped domestic policy over the last decade, one would think a more substantive discussion could be had. Last night’s “debate” was another symptom of systemic political failure.
Which is not to say that some domestic policies cannot be connected to foreign policy. However, a candidate’s talking points on schools were appropriate last week, not at this debate.
Here is a transcript of the debate with third party candidates added. http://newprogs.org/blog/2012/10/23/exclusive-obama-and-romney-agree-afghan-war-israel-and-syria-third-parties-give-alte
Calling last nights “presentation” or “performance” a debate is Orwellian newspeak. We should resolve to avoid the MSM newspeak and describe events and policies in real defined English. Debate, Moderator, Entitlement, Affordable, etc., etc., should only be used if they accurately fit an acceptable definition of the word.
I couldn’t stomach this pukefest after the first few minutes. Anyone who doubts that Romney is nearly a carbon copy of Obama and vice-versa is delusional.
I have recorded each debate on Democracy Now! and ff’d through the Rombama twins and only listened to Stein and Anderson’s responses. It is a fantasy world I admit but reduces the need for bicarbonate of soda.
The essence of the matter.The Ohio vote WILL be stolen.Period. Nothing else in the voting process matters. Concerning what GOP officials have already done/attempted….the pricks WILL steal the vote.Bank on it.
What we have as acceptable “political discourse” in the US is messaging and marketing not political discussions. The CPD, as a wholly owned partnership of the DNC and the RNC, of course set up the debates to permit the most latitude to the messaging that the candidates wanted to do. For their part, the major party candidates make the CPD debates the sole venue of debate that they will attend. And they set rules that exclude independent and third-party candidates.
You were lucky that any foreign policy was discussed at the “foreign policy” debate. It is just another “campaign event” to be navigated.
A messaging and marketing process is premised on politics as consumer choice instead of as participation in shaping the ends and means of public life. And among the values in consumer choice is convenience, and it was pretty convenient for a low-information voter to tune into just one debate and get the domestic plus foreign policy sales pitch.
You are seeking the ‘rasslin match not to be staged. The original modern debate, the Kennedy-Nixon debate sprung from the same impulse and succeeded so well that candidates boycotted the idea until 1976–and then by 1988 gamed the idea into the CPD kabuki of konvenience.
We are overdue for a fundamental change in the process by which we conduct politics in this country. Problem is, folks that want change also want some means of gaming the system to their ideas of the content of policy. No one has figured out how to have communications in which all the cards are on the table and folks can still come to a fairly rapid decision. Thus, the current pressure for devolution of power.
What the Bush administration did was pursue an expensive foreign policy to so hamstring the budget that they could cut the “socialist” programs that conservatives had been jonesing to cut since the New Deal. But when it came to the big payoff in 2005, the public put Democrats in charge of the Congress with the thought that they would protect those programs. So foreign policy is used as a check or an enabler of the budget for domestic programs. The strategies of Romney and Obama relative to this politics of guns and butter crept into the debate last night. Obama: we need to nation build in the US — infrastructure, schools, ….Romney: Right, break the teachers union. The debate was over foreign policy dictating the size of the domestic budget. And over positions that affect the perceived constituencies of the two parties.
The fact that it was incoherent and to a great degree signified is the symptom that it will take a fundamental change in the Presidential selection process to fix it. The DNC and the RNC own the game to the point of making the process incoherent.
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here are some more modern American recently orwellized concepts for you to add to your list -
‘enforcement agency’
‘banking regulations’
‘equal protection’
‘health care’
‘humanitarian war’
‘the only democracy in the middle east’
& ‘Democratic opposition’
- -
heck might as well add,
US Department of Justice
&
Department of Homeland Security
Forgot “military intelligence” and “business ethics”
Yesterday, Jill Stein announced the filing of a lawsuit against the Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD).
Tonight and October 30, third party debates will be held at 9 PM EST and will be live streamed (for more info, please see http://freeandequal.org and @freeandequal). Mirrors of the live stream include:
Adam [Kokesh] and the Man
LinkTV
RT.Com
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ha!
those are masterpieces of oxymoronic doublespeak !
..how about; “your vote counts” & “representative democracy”…?
You’re forgetting the Atom Heart Mother of all oxymorons:
American Democracy
Fraid it ‘taint so no-mo
To put it simply, if Romney’s elected president, with Ryan as his VP, their economic policies in 2013 will drive unemployment in the U.S. past 10 percent and their push for austerity will drive the federal deficit through the roof. Plus, their belligerent neocon foreign policy not only will probably lead to Iran being attacked, but this will trigger a nuclear holocaust in the region as other nations, near to that region and far, respond.
IOW,. 2013 will look a whole lot different if President Obama if reelected to a second term, continuing what he’s been doing for the past four years, some good (stopping another Great Depression, bringing down unemployment from what was left him by Republicans, saving the American auto industry and a whole lot of jobs) and some bad (continuing some Bush/Cheney policies, trying to work with obstructionist Obama-hating Republicans, sometimes compromising when taking a hard liberal line would have been better for our country, not prosecuting all the Wall Street executives who committed fraud and almost destroyed the U.S. economy in 2008).
OTOH, 2013 will be a nightmare if Romney and Ryan ever set foot inside the White House. Comprende?
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damn right
those mealy mouth death.justifiers are full to their eyebrows with funky dung, alright
there is a choice in 2012: choose to not support the ‘war is peace’ duopoly of careerist drone murders
‘yes you can’
& to the bigoted user of Spanish in an attempt to look all tough
- the record clearly shows that we are now experiencing the ‘nightmare’ where, inequality is worse, the government is less accountable, the executive has committed more war crimes, workers rights are more threatened, more marijuana users have been arrested yearly, more undocumented workers have beed detained and deported, more countries have been illegally bombed, more banking crimes have been absolved, more assertions of the state secrets act have been used to justify illegal acts and more unconstitutional attacks on peaceful protesters have taken place under the obama executive than the gwbush executive –
- leading to the obvious question, why do you support these criminal and unconstitutional acts with your vote?
I voted today in Washington State because my county has all of us vote by mail.
I got to vote for marriage equality, for legalizing marijuana, against lowering taxes on corporations, against making it harder for the legislature to raise taxes, against charter schools and FOR JILL STEIN. I also got to vote for a Green candidate for our state legislature.
Schieffer, a good friend of the Bush family and a legend in his own mind never asked one question on global climate change, Europe or Mexico. His corporate overlords must have been delighted by his “performance.”
Will also be voting for Jill Stein in Nov..
The Rombama twins would have looked very out of touch with the people if they were at this event. Progress is being made the more the 1% tries to hang on to power. We are more ready for real democracy than in any time in our history and little things mean allot.