
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton & Egypt FM Mohamed Amr announcing ceasefire
(update below)
United States Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Egyptian Foreign Minister Mohamed Amr announced ceasefire between Israel and Hamas. There was no signed agreement. The ceasefire is essentially “quiet in exchange for quiet,” as one Israeli diplomatic source put it.
In the announcement, Clinton reiterated the US’s position that “all rocket attacks must end” and said the US would be working with Egypt in the coming days on the next steps in the process. She said improvement of conditions for the people of Gaza and providing security for the people of Israel would be sought in any long-term agreement and there was “no substitute for a just and lasting peace.”
Amr explained the ceasefire would go into effect at 9 pm Cairo Time. Egypt would “assume responsibility to the Palestinian cause and finding a just solution for it.” Egypt will also work for Palestinian unity and an end to division among Palestinian factions.
The blockade or siege of Gaza was not part the terms of the ceasefire. Hamas leaders had pushed for that to be included in the ceasefire. Both Egyptian and Hamas leaders had included that in the ceasefire proposal sent to Israel yesterday. Israel rejected that along with a demand that targeted assassinations of people like Hamas leaders end. The bombing of Gaza re-intensified until less than twenty-four hours later there was this announced ceasefire.
As the New York Times reported, Clinton flew to Egypt yesterday to “consult with Egyptian officials in contact with Hamas” and, after this meeting, the demand for an end to the Israeli blockade of Gaza was entirely absent from the announcement and unmentioned as something that would be specifically addressed in the days ahead.
The statement from President Barack Obama’s administration that was given to the press indicated the administration would “use the opportunity offered by a ceasefire to intensify efforts to help Israel address its security needs, especially the issue of the smuggling of weapons and explosives into Gaza.” President Obama would also seek ”additional funding for Iron Dome and other US-Israel missile defense programs.” According to Haaretz, this was part of conversations that led Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to decide to give a ceasefire “a chance” to possibly help “stabilize” the situation “before exerting more force.”
A Congressional Research Service (CRS) report released in March of this year detailed, “The Department of Defense, Missile Defense Agency’s FY2013 request for joint U.S.-Israeli co-development is $99.8 million which is $6 million below the President’s FY2012 request. However, according to one source, ‘Though the administration’s request for missile defense monies has dropped somewhat in recent years—from $121.7m. in 2011 to $106.1m. in 2012 to 2013’s $99.8m.—during each of those cycles, Congress has consistently increased the final allocation.” In July, Obama approved $70 million more in aid for Iron Dome.
Essentially, the Obama administration is providing Israel with an incentive to restore nothing more than the status quo. The status quo is what is fueling the cycles of violence. The blockade, arbitrary detention and the policies of apartheid, including issues over water and food distribution, freedom of movement, etc, should be understood as part of what creates an environment where Palestinians are moved to respond to Israel with violence.
“Each firing of an interceptor missile costs the Israeli government tens of thousands of dollars, according to the defense ministry,” Voice of America reported.
Those interceptor missiles being used to prevent Israel from suffering the consequences of its policies toward Palestinians are being funded with US taxpayer dollars. Israel’s failure or refusal to end these policies ensures there will be more interceptor missiles and more maintenance necessary for the Iron Dome. That means the US has to invest tens of millions more dollars. That may be acceptable to Israel because it can weather hundreds if not thousands of projectile attacks and get used to it, but it should not be acceptable to Americans.
Funding for Iron Dome should not be seen as part of the solution to the conflict in the short-term or long-term because it gives Israel a mechanism for continuing the collective punishment and systemic abuse of the human rights of an entire population of people.
Hopefully, Egypt and Turkey can play a significant role in fostering a long-term agreement that addresses the blockade and other policies. There will be many stories of despair, pain and suffering as they try to recover from the complete decimation of homes, infrastructure and numerous civilian buildings. Even though ceasefire has been announced, Israel continued to bomb Gaza right up until the time it was to go into effect.
Egypt, Turkey and other Arab countries will need to make up for the United States’ complicity because right now the US is not concerned about their plight. Official statements are virtually indistinguishable from statements from Israeli officials. Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak even said this latest operation in Gaza would not have been possible without US support. The US wants what Israel wants and Israel does not want Gaza to become anything other than the open-air prison it is now because then they would not have control.
Update
Full text of the agreement:
Agreement of Understanding For a Ceasefire in the Gaza Strip
1: (no title given for this section)
A. Israel should stop all hostilities in the Gaza Strip land, sea and air including incursions and targeting of individuals.
B. All Palestinian factions shall stop all hostilities from the Gaza Strip against Israel including rocket attacks and all attacks along the border.
C. Opening the crossings and facilitating the movements of people and transfer of goods and refraining from restricting residents’ free movements and targeting residents in border areas and procedures of implementation shall be dealt with after 24 hours from the start of the ceasefire.
D. Other matters as may be requested shall be addressed.
2: Implementation mechanisms:
A. Setting up the zero hour for the ceasefire understanding to enter into effect.
B. Egypt shall receive assurances from each party that the party commits to what was agreed upon.
C. Each party shall commit itself not to perform any acts that would breach this understanding. In case of any observations Egypt as the sponsor of this understanding shall be informed to follow up.



206 Comments

Lifting the blockade needs to happen. Our government (US) should be helping to feed our own people and not supplying more military aid to Israel.
Thank you, Kevin, for the “update” regarding “the” conflict, the bloody oppression in Gaza.
I am glad that there is a ceasefire.
Why am I not surprised, however, that it is “occasion” for ” … Obama to seek more defense aid for Israel”?
You have probably already encountered this history,
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html
as linked to by mls78 at CTut’s my FDL post, “What Ceasefire …?”, Kevin, yet it is one that might be useful to others willing to take the time to read it.
DW
Thank you for the Ceasefire text update, Kevin.
Although I happen to share markfromireland’s concerns (to be found at CTut’s post, “What Ceasefire …?” @23 …)
“Given their consistently barbaric treatment of the Palestinians and their tactic of deliberately starving the entire population of Gaza there is no reason to believe that the Israelis will implement this in good faith.
I hope to be proved wrong but I don’t see this ceasefire as anything other than a hiatus in part of the continuing ethnic cleansing campaign being waged by Israel against the Palestinians.”
I don’t consider that there is any more blunt and truthful way of putting my concerns into words better, or more succinctly, than mark has already done.
DW
Why do continue to repeat lies. It has been stated countless times by independent authorities including the Red Cross in Gaza that there is no humanitarian crisis or crisis of starvation in Gaza. Its utter nonsense.
Not only did food and aid flow in this week from Israel even during the time Gaza was raining down rockets on Israel, but it also comes in from the Egyptian border with Gaza.
United Nations Middle East envoy Robert Serry, who met with President Shimon Peres in Jerusalem on Wednesday, said, “There is no humanitarian problem in Gaza.”
Serry acknowledged, however, that there is a need for certain goods in Gaza, such as materials for the rehabilitation of several buildings. This puts the lie to claims by international groups of a “humanitarian crisis” in Gaza caused by Israel’s partial blockade. In fact, Israel has allowed tens of thousands of tons of humanitarian and basic goods to be brought into Gaza via its crossings.
The Gaza Strip is not suffering from a humanitarian crisis, the deputy head of the Red Cross in Gaza said Mathilde Redmatn, who had been assigned to Congo and Colombia in the past.
No doubt, normalguy, you will not be among the ones who read the history, written BY Jews, although NOT Zionists, which I linked to @2?
The Palestinians are being oppressed and dispossessed by the Israelis and, it is not just the Palestinians who are degraded by what is going on. The Israeli peoples are themselves caught, brutalized, and debased BY their tactics toward, torture of, and abuse of the Palestinian peoples … it is eating out their souls and undermining the principles and humanity of their religion. The shame is theirs until and unless they admit to what they have done … they have behaved as colonists and sought to dispossess those people who inhabited the land for a thousand years before the the time of David and Solomon … and as well, both Jews and Arabs are brothers under the skin as the “Y” chromosome in both groups come from a common chromosome “pool” … in huge percentages, 70% and 82%, respectively.
DW
Huh…? Gaza in 2020: A liveable place?
Five Years of Blockade: The Humanitarian Situation in the Gaza Strip, June 2012
International pressure mounts over Gaza blockade…
Fifty international charities and United Nations Agencies have unanimously called for the lifting of the blockade of Gaza. The organizations have published a simple three line statement to mark the fifth anniversary of the tightening of the blockade of the Strip. It reads:
For over five years in Gaza, more than 1.6 million people have been under blockade in violation of international law. More than half of these people are children. We the undersigned say with one voice: “End the blockade now.”
UNRWA:
But, there’s no humanitarian crisis. How callous.
Talking about Israel’s COGAT drawing ‘Red Lines’…
From the BBC… Israel forced to release study on Gaza blockade…
“How can Israel claim that it is not responsible for civilian life in Gaza – when it controls even the type and quantity of food that Palestinian residents of Gaza are permitted to consume?”
Many dont agree including the RED CROSS in Gaza and if correct it would be the fault of the radical islamic jihadists that run Gaza who would prefer to spend their time figuring out ways to smuggle Iranian weapons and missiles into Gaza than take care of their own population.
Also UNRWA is very well known for their anti-Israel bias.
http://www.meforum.org/2996/unrwa-anti-israel-bias
its not callous, its just the truth
and how do you think Arafat became a billionaire..??
Red Cross: No humanitarian crisis in Gaza
Friday, April 22, 2011 | Ryan Jones
The International Red Cross on Wednesday acknowledged what anyone not taken in by anti-Israel propaganda has known for some time: that there is no humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip.
In an interview with the Israeli army spokesman, Mathilde Redmatn, deputy director of the Red Cross in Gaza, clearly declared for all those willing to listen that there “is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza.”
“If you go to the supermarket, there are products. There are restaurants and a nice beach,” noted Redmatn.
But Redmatn did go on to criticize Israel for maintaining a partial embargo on certain goods, such as cement, which can and has been used by terrorist forces to build bunkers.
“Israel has the legitimate right to protect the civilian population, [but] this right should be balanced with the right of 1.5 million people living in the Gaza Strip,” said Redmatn. “…difficulties in importing building materials [has] hampered sustainable economic recovery and dashed any hope of leading a normal and dignified life.”
Israelis would argue that a territory that elects terrorists as its leaders and then facilitates the launching of thousands of missiles at a neighboring territory has forfeited the right to a “normal and dignified life.”
Redmatn also slammed Hamas and its terrorist allies for continuing to fire missiles and mortar shells at Israeli civilians in southern Israel.
But, despite the reality, painting Gaza as a squalor-filled prison is just too good a propaganda tool for most to give up.
A few brave journalists over the past few years have bucked the media trend of portraying Gaza as the most destitute place on earth, and have provided written and photographic evidence that Gaza is not nearly as bad off as most reports make it out to be.
Last year, National Post reporter Tom Gross lambasted his colleagues in the international media for focusing solely on those parts of Gaza that are impoverished in a deliberate attempt to suggest that the entire region lives that way, because of Israeli security measures.
“We could produce the same effect by selectively filming seedy parts of Paris and Rome and New York and Los Angeles, too,” Gross wrote at the time.
Even Hamas has admitted that there is no Israeli-created starvation in Gaza.
“There is no starvation in Gaza. No one has died of hunger,” Khalil Hamada, a senior official at Gaza’s Ministry of Justice, told London’s Daily Telegraph last year.
The claim, reiterated by Redmatn, that Israel is not allowing enough building materials into Gaza is also dubious.
In November, Gaza Housing Minister Yousef Alamanti confirmed to United Press International that construction had been started on a massive high-rise apartment project. The project includes three apartment buildings with a total of 25,000 apartments, a mosque, playground, shopping center and schools.
It is difficult to understand how such an expansive project could be built if Israel is not letting Gazans get their hands on even basic building materials.
The truth revealed by all of these acknowledgements and reports is that Gaza is not under siege. Yes, Israel is closely monitoring and restricting the entry of certain goods in order to limit the terrorists’ capabilities. But the influx of goods into a territory that is actively engaged in terrorist warfare against the civilians of its neighboring territory is unprecedented in Gaza
Naturally you’d cite that Zionist crap from the infamous Islamophobe, and Neo/Ziocon Daniel Pipes’ Reichwing Rag…! 8-(
You need to post your source links…! That is a banning offense…!
You cant take it that someone presents another viewpoint so you want to ban…why am I not suprised
Of course, any other viewpoint besides the genocidal hatred and lies you spew about Israel ..is crap.
…’genocidal hatred’…
Wtf are you talking about…? Get a grip, dood…! *gah*
No, CTut is correct. When you share your opinion, that is one thing.
However, when you make references to what you claim others have said or cite what you call “facts”, then you have an obligation to provide sources, with links TO those sources, that the rest of us might determine if those sources and links are credible.
Otherwise, you simply “impress” most of us with how much a lack of respect for common humanity you are willing to reveal about having, or not having, yourself.
If you wish to be respected as a credible commenter, then you must meet certain minimal standards of providing verification for whatever you claim to be so … beyond what is your personal opinion or understanding, expressed as such.
What a bunch of utter nonsense you spew. No people has had a closer connection in their faith and in their culture to that land than the Jewish people – for 3000 years. They accepted a sliver of land among 22 Arab nations, accepted a partition plan, but it was still too much for the Arabs, and 5 Arab armies invaded in 1948 to wipe them out and lost
And stop hiding behind this term Zionist. If one believes in a homeland for the Jewish people, namely Israel, then one is a Zionist and because the vast majority of Jews support the existence of state of Israel, you are talking about Jews.
That is exactly what it is. By all your comments one could only assume the root of all evil in the region and the world is Israel.
That you accuse others, who do not share your opinion, regarding Israel, of being “haters”, even “genocidal haters”, does little to convince anyone here that you’ve ANY interest in rational discourse or furthering understanding.
Does that matter to you in the least?
Do you care how others perceive you and your perspectives?
You might try to be a bit more tolerant, even patience … or not.
As I said earlier, the ability of those who exhort others to violence or the to the learned hubris of ignoring oppression, torture, and violence is diminishing, very rapidly, indeed none too soon for the common best interests of humanity and our collective survival.
However, do as you imagine will best serve your “ends”.
Here I was trying to help ya out…! But, I wouldn’t shed a tear if you were…!
Btw, I’ve been ‘spewing lies’ here for years…
US State Dept: Israel’s “Principal Human Rights Problems Were Institutional, Legal, And Societal Discrimination”
‘Israel Is Addicted To Occupation’
The Science Of A Siege
Just some simple Facts…!
Now, Get a clue…! 8-(
Let’s get your record straight here.
What you posted was a link to IsraelToday: http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/22757/Default.aspx
That is actually a re-post of the article by Yaakov Lappin from the Jerusalem Post the day before: http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=217460
Note the date: April 21/22 2011 That was Holy Thursday and Good Friday for the Christians in the crowd, and Passover in Israel – 19 months ago.
The relative bearing to today, is approximately zero.
Except for one more thing; that was the time period about 1 month before Egypt opened the Rafallah crossing in May, so there was a breach in Israel’s blockade.
Pre-emptive propaganda masquerading as some sort of mitzvah is still propaganda, and still not a mitzvah.
hard to tell what additional funding for Israeli missile defense means. May have been in the pipeline already.
Lemme see. Fiscal cliff and more aid to Israel. Facepalm. Of course the ceasefire is now and the aid has to go through Congress unless it’s coming for the emergency discretionary petty cash.
hard to tell what additional funding for Israeli missile defense means. May have been in the pipeline already.
Unless we have some inside source it is indeed hard to tell what the inside politics is. Best guess it’s more good news for Israeli funding.
Don’t know what Obama’s game is exactly now, if its a positive message for Israel, he has sold out all principles. All we will hear is boilerplate.
Gotta tell you DW, the best thing to do with ‘normalguy’ is put him on ignore. Unless you have unlimited time, or you get some inside track on taking this turkey down.
I can see banning him from this site as reasonable. It’s a matter of sapping energy away . . .
Iron Dome, Iron Drone. I am sick of hearing about “Austerity“! for Americans but tax payer bu¢k$ burned on corporate warfare with a cut for Israel. Enough already.
*
normalguy,
While you’re engaging in discussion, how much aid should the US give to Israel (military or defense)? Is funding the Iron Dome good policy? How do you see the Iron Dome impacting the conflict? Will it improve security for Israel or does it just give Israel a way to maintain a status quo involving policies that infuriate the Palestinian population?
Capturing comments, disrupting, diverting. The usual bag of tricks. Not paying attention is the worst thing you can do to whoever this is.
You are obviously a fanatic, so let me approach from this perspective: World Opinion. I’d like to hear your rationalization for why the nations of the world condemn the actions of Israel? You’ll probably respond that they hate you, but the big question is WHY????
Mahalo, Kevin, for your excellent coverage of this tragic affair…!
nobody threatened to ban you, abnormal guy. You were merely directed to the ground rules and responsibilities that come with going through the process of registering at firedoglake.
… It’s a matter of sapping energy away . . .
*heh* He’s actually firing me up…!
well I understand this but, it’s not unlikely, this ‘normalguy’ is just a front for a cell that has targeted FDL, as they do where any sanity is present. Same ISP. No problemo.
When it comes to those who deport themselves as normalguy does, DonS, it seems to me that it is best to allow them to fully display their “appreciation” of others as they reveal their “grasp” of what is going on and the “history”, as they perceive it, which serve as “justification” for their beliefs about and attitudes toward other human beings.
Until quite recently, normalguy has probably not experienced very many people who would dare challenge his world-view, and he clearly finds many commenters at this site to be very challenging, indeed.
It is not likely that normalguy will change his viewpoint anytime soon … yet his viewpoint is shared by fewer and fewer, especially informed, human beings, except, unfortunately, among the political class of both legacy parties who need to be openly challenged quite as much as does normalguy.
Consider that normalguy offers us the opportunity of learning how to mount that challenge successfully, with ample assistance from Kevin Gosztola, Siun, CTut, Edward Teller, markfromireland, and others well-versed in their understanding and knowledge about that part of the world, of course.
It is good practice, keeping one’s cool and rational perspective when the “push-back” is emotionally overwrought and given to fallacious argument, false equivalency, personal assault, and so on.
Normally (all puns, aside), most who troll for shocked response, with a desire to insult or attack others, deserve being “put … on ignore”, I agree. However, the Palestinian-Israeli “conflict”, the heartless oppression of other human beings, by those who constantly and consistently claim victim “status”, for the emotional power that claim wields among those manipulated, deliberately to feel “guilty”, needs the full attention and informed activity of many human beings if it is to be, finally, ended rationally, reasonably, and as humanly decently as possible. We, citizens of the USA, have an especial responsibility in that regard considering that it is our money and “support” which has long enabled the suffering and torture to go on.
DW
Ironically, since he is only a 3 day-old Noob, I would suspect he’s part of that big IDF Social Media blitz…! He certainly has his Talking Points down pat…!
You’ll notice that ‘normalguy’ glommed onto the notion of “banning” long before I ever mentioned it. This is to establish the discriminatory, anti-Jewish, guilt laden excuse long in advance, i.e., to foment more dissent and naturally dissonance within the progressive community. You see ‘he’ masquerades as the heart and soul of progressiveism.
Excuse me Sir,are you allow to go outside alone? If so,You must have a PHD. in Turdology. It no way on this side of midnight you beleive that turd that you are polishing. You are a pied piper of lies and disinformation .You have not answered one question just repeated talking points that you pickup off some called cablenew show. Your answers are not blowing in the wind, its that stinch from the turd you keep polishing.
6:32 – 8:32
Dinner break or change of shifts?
I can see the Mastercard commercial
Voiceover guy:
/s
A little context on normalguy.
Ha’aretz: Red Cross official: Gaza isn’t experiencing a humanitarian crisis (April 21, 2011)
Did the Red Cross say there’s no humanitarian crisis in Gaza? (July 6, 2011)
Not only are they talking points, they are well beyond their sell-by date.
The statement that the situation in Gaza was not a humanitarian crisis was subsequently clarified by ICRC spokeswoman Cecilia Goin.
HERE (my bold)
HERE
The article in the second link also reminds us that
It’s also worth noting that while we may use the term “humanitarian crisis” in a general way to describe a dire situation, The International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies has a technical definition for “humanitarian crisis.“
Looks like you got there first!
What country run by radical islamic jihadists is prospering and not in some sort of dire crisis ??
*heh* Looks like ‘normalguy’ fired up some others, too…! Aloha, m’dear…! *g*
hey normalguy, wassup?
get you some goy on the side for dinner?
Even a jihadist hack like you should be able to read. I was responding to someone else who mentioned ‘banning’
Thanks for the additions, and I also previously addressed at my comment #23
hey normaguy, head up the ol ass as usual. Gotta look up to look down?
What countries are run by radical Islamic jihadists, period? Waiting….Waiting…..Thought so.
Please elaborate on which countries are in fact run by radical islamic jihadists…? I would propose that the House of Saud is doing quite nicely, eh…?
Yup sorry to interrupt your anti-Israel party here. All you Israel haters patting each other on the back with your consipiracy theories and hateful views and double standards focused on blaming Israel for everything and ignoring all else – even justifying suicide bombing as long as it only Jews that are killed. It is sad and I will continue to point it out and present the other side at every opportunity.
Redundancy is necessary in some situations.
You confuse and conflate so many terms.
Do you even know what jihad means in its most basic form? Also, why cannot you even admit there are legitimate concerns of adherents of Islam as regards citizens of Gaza?
may hillary continue her work. blessed be the peacemakers and their funders.
Good deal normalguy. Keep on pointing out. We’re all ears. Except I’ve seen about enough of your silliness. Keep on writing. Hope it pays well.
Quite well if you are a moslem, not a women, not gay, not christian …the list goes on. They do have oil and that helps.
Dang, you’re accumulating some virtual drinks there, Tarheel…! What’s your pleasure…?
sure there are concerns but why can’t anyone here recognize the legitmate concerns of Israel
The latest CNN poll results are as follows:
59 percent of Americans sympathize with the Israelis, while 13 percent say they sympathize more with the Palestinians, and 11% say they don’t sympathize with either side.
Okay, so now let’s revisit your original question… What country run by radical islamic jihadists is prospering and not in some sort of dire crisis ??
What was your point again…?
Let’s establish an honest debate here.
Respond to my comment at #23, and date relevancy vis-a-vis what you claimed versus contemporary relevancy.
Yeah. God gave it to them, or was it the Great Pumpkin? I dunno. What I do know is that none of the Jews living there have any genetic roots to the place, since they ate all descendants of medieval converts to the religion. They don’t have any more God-given rights to the place than I do, and I’m a full-blooded member of the master aryan race.
… All you Israel haters patting each other on the back with your consipiracy theories and hateful views and double standards focused on blaming Israel for everything and ignoring all else – even justifying suicide bombing as long as it only Jews that are killed…
Are you truly that oblivious…?
The “legitimate concerns of Israel”. Which Israel? Likud? the Settlers? the religous whackjobs?
Right now Bibi Netanyahu seems to be asserting that Israel reserves the right to occupy Greater Israel as a one-state solution. And that, as a practical matter for preserving a Jewish state, means a unified apartheid state, that annexes Palestine and Gaza as the functional equivalent of bantustans. If that is not what the majority of Israelis want, they should call out this sorry pre-election stunt and vote Netanyahu out of office. Otherwise, the world will know that Israelis really don’t want peace, they want apartheid.
What prompted Israel to attack is that over the past year Hamas has become increasingly legitimate to Fatah. The Israeli government believes it benefits when these two factions are at war. Hillary went over there to crack skulls. It worked. Nothing new here, but the notion that Hillary Clinton went over there so the administration could kiss Israel’s ass strikes me as absurd. She could have done that from home.
*heh* and *hi*
You owe me a new keyboard
I dont have an opinion on how much aid the US should give to Israel – that is up to the US Gov’t, elected by the people of the United States, to decide.
I believe funding the Iron Dome has been a good idea. Without it more innocent civilians would have been killed by Hamas rockets, which are only meant to kill civilians, and that may have pushed in Israel into sending in ground troops which would have made things more dangerous for everyone. All it does is save Israeli lives – both Arab and Jew – which I know to you are not that important.
Knock yourself out, normalguy.
You are winning converts here by the multitude, obviously.
However, as you “point” things “out”, beyond your opinion, please be
prepared to offer linked sources.
You suggested that Israelis had a “3000″ year history in Palestine, is that correct? Now, could you clarify that history a bit?
Suppose we start with King David’s conquest of Cannan in 1000 BC and move “forward” to the “wiping out” of Judah in 586 BC … a period of 414 years of Jewish rule … according to Illene Beatty in her book, “Arab and Jew in the Land of Cannan”.
Now then, who ruled that land prior to 1000 BC and who then ruled that land subsequent to 586 BC?
And who, what peoples beside the Jews, lived there before 1000 BC, during the 414-year period of Jewish rule, and subsequently, to that period?
By the way, this link will verify what I said about the “Y” chromosome;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people
Scroll down to the second paragraph …
Now, you can either engage, or not, normalguy, but I’ve just shown you how to “play” if you care to do so.
Do you dare give it a try?
DW
Just shared a viral FB pic. Geezer and a gun. Turkey season. I shot my first turkey yesterday. Scared everyone in the frozen food section. It was awesome. Getting old is so much fun.
Do you have any idea how much in aid they want? I mean we have a deficit crisis for crying out loud.
*heh* He wants to cite polls… Many Israeli Jews support apartheid-style state, poll suggests…
Dunno. Current appropriation is for $3.1 billion for one year. (Similar amount to Egypt.) Believe it is all military aid. Dunno if it’s tied to purchases of US goods and services or not.
Well, the poll only “suggested”.
Yeah, you’re right. I don’t care about Arabs or Jews. Who do you work for exactly?
Now, stop with that sloganeering! This just isn’t any way to have serious conversation.
Gideon Levy caught major flack on his original Haaretz article last month, it’s been rewritten and retitled several times since…! 8-(
Its nonsensical and a lie. There is no apartheid in Israel. Arab citizens of Israel have the same rights as Jewish citizens of Israel.
Arab citizens of Israel are free to leave Israel for any Arab country but none of them do because they have it far better in Israel than in any Arba country and they know it.
The National Review August 30, 2011
Israel — an Apartheid State?
Of the world’s many great lies, this is among the greatest.
Next month, the U.N.-sponsored Hate-Israel Festival known as Durban III takes place. Under the heading “Anti-Racism,” the great bulk of the conference, like its Durban I and II predecessors, consists of condemning Israel for racism and equating it with an apartheid state.
Of the world’s many great lies, this is among the greatest.
How do we know it is a lie? Because when South Africa was an apartheid state, no one accused Israel of being one. Even the U.N. would have regarded the accusation as absurd.
Israel has nothing in common with an apartheid state, but few people know enough about Israel — or about apartheid South Africa — to refute the libel. So let’s respond.
First, what is an apartheid state? And, does Israel fit that definition?
From 1948 to 1994, South Africa, the country that came up with this term, had an official policy that declared blacks second-class citizens in every aspect of that nation’s life. Among many other prohibitions on the country’s blacks, they could not vote; could not hold political office; were forced to reside in certain locations; could not marry whites; and couldn’t even use the same public restrooms as whites.
Not one of those restrictions applies to Arabs living in Israel.
One and a half million Arabs live in Israel, constituting about 20 percent of the country’s population. They have the same rights as all other Israeli citizens. They can vote, and they do. They can serve in the Israeli parliament, and they do. They can own property, businesses, and work in professions alongside other Israelis, and they do. They can be judges, and they are. Here’s one telling example: It was an Arab judge on Israel’s supreme court who sentenced the former president of Israel, a Jew, to jail on a rape charge.
Some other examples of Arabs in Israeli life: Reda Mansour was the youngest ambassador in Israel’s history, and is now Consul General at Israel’s Atlanta Consulate; Walid Badir is an international soccer star on Israel’s national team, and captain of one of Tel Aviv’s major teams; Rana Raslan is a former Miss Israel; Ishmael Khaldi was until recently the deputy consul of Israel in San Francisco; Khaled Abu Toameh is a major journalist with the Jerusalem Post; Ghaleb Majadele was until recently a minister in the Israeli Government. They are all Israeli Arabs. Not one is a Jew.
Arabs in Israel live freer lives than Arabs living anywhere in the Arab world. No Arab in any Arab country has the civil rights and personal liberty that Arabs in Israel have.
Now one might counter, “Yes, Palestinians who live inside Israel have all these rights, but what about the Palestinians who live in what are known as the occupied territories? Aren’t they treated differently?”
Yes, of course, they are — they are not citizens of Israel. They are governed by either the Palestinian Authority (Fatah) or by Hamas. The control Israel has over these people’s lives is largely manifested when they want to enter Israel. Then they are subjected to long lines and strict searches because Israel must weed out potential terrorists.
Otherwise, Israel has little control over the day-to-day life of Palestinians, and was prepared to have no control in 2000 when it agreed to the establishment of an independent Palestinian state to which it gave 97 percent of the land it had conquered in the 1967 War. The Palestinian response was to unleash an intifada of terror against Israeli civilians.
And what about the security wall that divides Israel and the West Bank? Is that an example of apartheid?
That this is even raised as an issue is remarkable. One might as well mention the security fence between the United States and Mexico an example of apartheid. There is no difference between the American wall at its southern border and the Israeli wall on its eastern border. Both barriers have been built to keep unwanted people from entering the country.
My humble apologies, Kevin…!
there is little doubt that Gaza has experienced a humanitarian crisis in the past. You can search CNN and find lots of articles in 2008 and even in 2011. In fact, there is a crisis right now starting with medicines. It is on google. So the idea that Gaza has escaped that is untrue.
The National effing Review an authority!!!!!
The security fence on the US southern border and the hysteria about undocumented workers has been fomented by the National Review, among others. It is about ethnic exclusion, not security. And yes, it is a sort of apartheid. There in fact is no difference between the two. Both are being used for expropriation. In the US it is expropriation of labor; in the Occupied Territories, it is the almost complete expropriation of real estate.
…The National Review August 30, 2011…
Are you serious…? 8-(
Dangnabbit, I owe ya another one…!
15 month old articles again – and no original link!
You are SO CURRENT! I love that about you.
I’m gonna have to put my swim fins on and get in line at the Panama Canal.
Please review the FDL Terms of Service regarding reprinting entire articles.
With pleasure.
Palestinian claims to be related to the Canaanites are a recent phenomenon and contrary to historical evidence. The Canaanites disappeared from the face of the earth three millennia ago, and no one knows if any of their descendants survived or, if they did, who they would be.
Sherif Hussein, the guardian of the Islamic Holy Places in Arabia, said the Palestinians’ ancestors had only been in the area for 1,000 years. Even the Palestinians themselves have acknowledged their association with the region came long after the Jews. In testimony before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946, for example, they claimed a connection to Palestine of more than 1,000 years, dating back no further than the conquest of Muhammad’s followers in the 7th century.Over the last 2,000 years, there have been massive invasions (e.g., the Crusades) that killed off most of the local people, migrations, the plague, and other manmade or natural disasters. The entire local population was replaced many times over. During the British mandate alone, more than 100,000 Arabs emigrated from neighboring countries and are today considered Palestinians.
By contrast, no serious historian questions the more than 3,000-year-old Jewish connection to the Land of Israel, or the modern Jewish people’s relation to the ancient Hebrews.
Nice to try to delegitmise Israel but Israel is there to stay whether you like it or not.
Never in the history of the world has there been an independent Palestinian state.
Despite that, they have had numerous chances to have their own state but as Abba Eban said ‘they have never missed an opportunity to miss and opportunity”
You are like a klansman and I am trying to convince you its ok for Obama to be President of the United States. It is futile because of your bias.
Israel seems to have the same problem.
Now that you mention it, normalguy, the walls at the South and at the East are BOTH odious examples of notions of superiority and heartless hubris.
Actually, you might wish to mention the internment, in the US, of those of Japanese heritage during WWII and compare it to what is now occurring in Gaza. And again, BOTH are odious … the first was found to be contrary to the US Constitution while the second cannot be found contrary to The Israeli Constitution … as there is no such thing.
If you think that you might compare the recent use of torture as official US policy to the long standing policy of torture in Israel, then you will find no one here who will say that either poicies are a good or a just thing, in fact most everyone here thinks torture is totally counterproductive and evidence of barbarism.
And, just so you know, the killing of anyone, anywhere, or at any time, (as is now official US policy, btw) is not a good thing or anything that I cheer, endorse, or encourage.
DW
October 2012 The independent.
What’s with the number 47%? Is it some fundamental law of the universe these days?
Incidently, I should add that a sitting Arab MK, Hanin Zuabi, would probably beg to differ with that pathetic National Review screech…!
You can check out the Wikipedia entry on Israeli apartheid. There are arguments on both sides.
See comment @ 89 regarding copyrighted material.
They probably checked in with Romney first.
Hah! You make me laugh! Like HARD LAUGHING!
Still, you’re a crappy troll. Why you’re talking points aren’t updated is a mystery to me.
You should be armed with decent rebuttals – but you ain’t, Blanche. And that isn’t surprising, since, wait for it……there’re no decent rebuttals available to you.
Dewd…! I highly suggest that ya Stop digging…! 8-(
But your problem is you only spew the Arab line and single out Israel to the exclusion of all others. Your hatred takes over all rational thought. Why don you talk about Hamas and there killing of gays, their denial of rights to women, their glorification of suicide bombers, their calling Jews Apes and Pigs, their use of human shields. You are silent on all that good stuff and only attack Israel. Israel makes lots of mistakes but you would have more legitimacy if you would acknowledge there are 2 sides to the Arab-Israeli story. Its cannot be just Israel bad, Arabs/Palestinians good.
Not really. Israel took the opportunity of the UN partition plan – the one that divided the land into Arab and Jewish states. The Arabs rejected it and invaded with 5 armies to destory the Jews. The Arabs lost that war and have wanted a re-do ever since.
You have got to be joking. The very fact that this Arab women is a freely elected MK (something that would have been impossible in most Arab countries) will tell you Israel is not an apartheid state.
The AG through it out by the way and she continued on as an MK
You really are unhinged.
Canaanites, and so on….
Jesus wept!
There is no historical evidence of Moses, the exodus, the captivity, the 10 commandments being issued during a 40-year wilderness trek, that Jews founded Jerusalem, that David, if there ever really was a “David” ruled over anything more than a small chiefdom (which might not even have been Jewish if it existed), that Joshua stopped the sun or blew down the walls of Jericho with a horn, or of many of the other thousands of myths that populate what christians call the “old testament.”
Contemporary Israel is mostly populated by European colonists or their descendants, with no more than a tenuous connection to the people who perpetrated these cute myths. Whatever reason people like you find for these colonists to expand their colonial enterprise resemble nothing in recent history more than the enterprise of the Dutch Covenanters in South Africa.
What you Zionists have done to the beauty, poetry, humanity and historicity of true Judaism is one of the major crimes in the world history of religion or spirituality.
I have never said, normalguy, that the Palestinians are not guilty of serious harm to other human beings, but I do suggest that between them and the Israelis, it is the Israelis who are the more powerful, who are the oppressors, and who refuse to acknowledge the inhumanity of both their oppression and their brutality in trying to force the people of Palestine to leave their homes and their lands.
The history of Israel is bloody and not honorable, any more than is the history of the US. Both nations removed a people from lands which those people had just and legitimate claim to and both nations must admit to the horrors they committed in service to what each has claimed as its “destiny” and its “right” to “control”.
DW
In other words, before Likud took power the Israeli government did a few things right.
Even with Likud, Israel forcibly removed Israeli settlers from the Sinai in order fulfill the Camp David agreements. But that was before the assassination of Prime Minister Rabin and Ariel Sharon’s political stunt at the al Aqsa mosque.
You have yet to provide sources or links to sources, normalguy.
And, in point of actual fact, you don’t even list or name those “serious” historians, all of whom you say agree with you.
This amounts to “bad form” and very poor buttressing of argument.
And I note that Kelly is taking you, rightfully, to task for not providing more current sources for current events … also not evidence of credible preparation.
You must seriously try harder to rise to what is required, else you will find your passionate intensity avails you of very little, here, at this site …
DW
Israel didnt ‘remove’ anyone from their lands. There was a UN partition plan which the Arabs rejected and the Jews accepted. There was a war when 5 Arab armies invaded and in wars some dislocations occur. It is not unique to Israel. There are almost 2 million Arab citizens of Israel and several millions of Arabs in the disputed areas.
I think you are forgetting that hundreds of thousands of Jews were expelled from their homes in Arab lands.
But it was under Likud that Israel left Gaza and removed all the settlements there.
My point is clear and you are not my professor.
You ignorance of Judaism and Zionism is profound to say the least.
So what happened since then? There is less and less Palestine surrounding settlements every year. If there’s a two-state solution, how about the 1967 borders and all the settlements being ruled by a Palestinian state? Oh, yes, that idea is already off the table and would mean the end of the career of any Israeli politician who proposed it–if not that politician’s life.
Of course the Arabs were never polled or asked, were not allowed to decide anything about what was to be done, although, by the time of the UN’s “plan” of 1947, the Arabs had already gotten a sense, as early as 1921, of what as to come when ‘… Dr. Ender, a member of the Zionist Commission, boldly told the Court of Inquiry, “there can be only one National Home in Palestine, and that a Jewish one, and no equality in the partnership between the Jews and Arabs, but a Jewish preponderance as soon as the numbers of the race are sufficiently increased”. He then asked that only Jews be allowed to bear arms.’ From Sami Hadawi’s “Bitter Harvest”.
The point is that the architects of Israel had planned, from 1919, that the Arabs would become second-class citizens … would be inferior, in every way, to those who would take over their land.
DW
You are simply incorrect. The Arabs of Palestine had the oppportunity to have their own independent state for the 1st time in history but they rejected the partition and started a war of annhilation against the Israel.
Your points remain completely unsubstantiated and amount to nothing but prejudiced opinion, normalguy, so far as I am concerned.
I am not being, in any way, pedantic, I am merely suggesting that you have no sources, as such, which you specifically name, and have yet to provide links to any of what you claim are your sources …
Apparently, these helpful hints seem to you to be unreasonable, would that be correct?
DW
Sure many Israelis may support something of that nature but that has to be negotiated at a negotiating table.
A couple of questions.
What is the rest of Muslim Brotherhood likely to let Morsi do? Many of them wanted to disavow the peace treaty with Israel as of a few months ago. Many didn’t want US aid coming to Egypt, either. Where are they now? Will Morsi survive? (That’s all one question).
Kevin’s piece mentioned uniting the Palestinian factions. But when Hamas beat Fatah in the election, Hamas proceeded to throw Fatah adherents off of roofs of tall buildings. It seemed more than a family spat. How is uniting possible?
I dont need sources for my own opinions and knowledge. I have cited numerous sources but this is not a class and you are not a professor.
The Allies won WW2. Do I need to cite a source for that to satify you ?
No, normalguy, I am relating the actual history of the Zionist efforts to establish Israel and clearly citing my sources. Until you cite specific sources of your own, you are, apparently, simply reduced to repeating the same line over and over again. Such repetition is not evidence nor even useful in a debate such as Kevin wishes this post to encourage.
However, carry on, if it pleases you.
It is common courtesy to cite sources, normalguy, and fitting and proper, when debating, to do so.
DW
Re: my #118
Also I think Kevin’s right about US aid to Israel as a constipating factor against progress. But I would also add aid to Egypt to the list. Both should be reduced or curtailed.
I know my viewpoint on aid to Egypt is considered retrograde here, except for perhaps the military portion but that’s a big chunk of it. The rest seems window dressing. What good has it actually done over the years? It seems to me we’ve been pimping all along.
What you did n’t do, is respond to the aged out data in my #23.
So, you really stink at factual rebuttals. You really do.
Your bullshit description of Canfield is an apt summation of the feces you have smeared all over this post. You have no interest in “convincing” anyone of anything related to this topic.
Thank you ottogrendel.
Having previously butted heads with you, your forthrightness is completely and totally appreciated by me.
I may be an asshole, but I am not a TOTAL asshole. I have some redeemable qualities.
Thats a real intelligence response. Thanks for your message.
I can’t respond to everything. I got a thousand Israel haters on here to contend with.
I don’t need to cite a source that there was a partition plan and the Arabs rejected it and invaded the new state of Israel. It is commonly accepted knowledge. The same way I don’t need to cite a source that Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.
Well honey, just take a deep breath, look at what I actually wrote, and respond.
Shouldn’t be too difficult for you now, should it?
I understand your sentiments behind our previous conversations–the things that are important to you and your loyalties. You have plenty of redeemable qualities and are no asshole in my book.
(We still need to keep an honest account of the evidence relevant to the competing theories of Obama’s second term, however.
)
Oh, thank you. You’re welcome.
Would that be the same “common knowledge” that that sky grifter Dennis Prager engages in–whose entire argument in the article you cited is based on a logical error?
normalguy @81:
With all due respect, this is a falsehood. Miko Peled is the author of The General’s Son, and had a father who was the highly regarded Israeli general, Matti Peled. He is an Israeli citizen, and describes in the video the rights and privileges he as an Israeli citizen enjoys, vs. the denial of these same rights to Arab citizens living in Israel. Peled details what it’s actually like for Palestinians living in Israel as an eye witness.
Can you make the same claim?
http://warincontext.org/2012/10/10/video-the-zionist-conquest-of-palestine/
Unlike in Arab countries, there are all sorts of viewpoints in a democracy such as Israel. No country is perfect and Israel certainl is not perfect, but your cherry pick, does not change the fact that Arab citizens of Israel can vote freely, have their own free press, have members of parliament, there are Arabs on the supreme court and in the IDF. They can say what they want and travel where they want and do what they want.
The amazing thing is that if it so bad for them in Israel as you claim, why have not any Arab citizens of Israel left and gone to an Arab country where I suppose you believe they would be so much better off ?
but you didnt cite any authority that says Dennis Prager is a ‘sky-drifter’. I know you don’t like it when your over the top hatred for Israel is challenged by the truth.
… I got a thousand Israel haters on here to contend with…
Ooh, you poor wittle thing…!
It sure boggles mind to see “no brains no balls” type subservience of our political leaders to Israel. It is shameful, pathetic and disgusting.
Enticing Israel to ceasefire by offering more weapons is like begging a rapist/child molester to stop his rampage by rewarding him with more Viagra. Israel would have been made to stop such nonsense long ago if money and political resources of American people were not being stolen and given to Israel to enable its criminal acts.
Grifter, man, it’s grifter, not drifter. My “hatred for Israel”?! I love Israel, which is why I have such over-the-top hatred when I see God’s Chosen Nation disparaged by the likes of you and Prager.
The same sh*t happened when Obummer tried to bribe Bibi off, for just a mere ’90 day’ slowdown in the Settlement growth, as a ‘good faith’ gesture to Abu Mazen…! What a clusterf*ck that turned out to be…! *gah*
I notice that apart from your flouting of the site’s rules on copyright that you’re very carefully not giving the source because you know as well as I do that your source is a propaganda outlet for extreme right-wing zionists.
mfi
Wrong again. It has a lot of bearing on today. 2 years ago people like you were spewing lies about a humanitarian crisis in Gaza – and there wasn’t one.
Since then restrictions have been eased considerably. Hamas themselves admits no one is starving in Gaza, not then and not now.
Is there hardship there – yes, but look who is in charge there – a radical islamic jihadist organization who hates Israel more than it loves its own people and spends much of their money and energy trying to attack Israel instead of take care of their own people. They rain down thousands of rockets on Israel and then they want cooperation! They bear enormous responsiblilty for the troubles of Gaza. They have been terrible for the Palestinian people living there. The PA is not lobbing rockets into Israel and there is pretty good economic cooperation and the economy is doing well.
I am citing a June 2010 Der Spiegel articleby Ulrike Putz:
Much of the goods that comes into Gaza never reach average average Gazans. It is a long-time policy of the Palestinian and wider Arab leadership to maintain a victim or “refugee” status among average Palestinians.
It is well known that Hamas supporters are favored.
“People who are not in with Hamas don’t see any of the relief goods or the gifts of money. Hamas supporters get prefabricated housing, furnishings and paid work. We get nothing.”
This website has a lot of information about apartheid in Israel and the occupied territories, including laws, history, and opinion, with extensive citing of a variety of different sources.
http://www.itisapartheid.org/get_informed.html
Funny way of showing it my friend.
Ah, “Love it or leave it” rears its still ugly and mindless head, once again, normalguy?
So, if Arabs are “unwanted” second-class citizens in their own country, then they should have the good sense to leave and go elsewhere?
Perhaps we should invite them all to come to the US, which would be fitting and quite proper, in a very real sense?
Frankly, is this not what oppressed people should be invited to do?
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send those, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
Does that not mean, Give me your oppressed … your unwanted?
Would you care to invite the Arabs here, normalguy? Would you be willing to share this nation with them?
DW
Not at all. I don’t need to give a source that there was a UN partition plan and the Arabs rejected it. Or do you dispute that?
I left a link for the video, if you really want to know about the two sets of laws in Israel, one for Jewish citizens and another for Arab citizens of Israel. But, I doubt you do.
I am not claiming anything. It is Peled, an Israeli citizen and an eye witness who has reported on the two-tiered system of justice in Israel, one for Jews and one for Arabs. Do you know any Arab citizens or talked with any of them? I doubt it.
Actually it’s a legal obligation dw. There is a legal obligation to respect the intellectual property rights of others.
mfi
Sure I have. They say they have it pretty good there compared to Arab countries but as I said nothing is perfect. I already told you there are thousand different opinions in a democracy such as Israel. Peled has his opinion and that is fine, but is his word the final word..is he God or something ?
You have repeatedly posted entire articles here in flagrant defiance both of the laws of copyright and of the rules of this site.
mfi
Sure I have nothing against Arabs. My gripe is with radical islamic Jihadists like Hamas who sole goal is to kill as many Jews as possible and turn western civilization back to the 7the century.
Would you prefer to live under a Hamas regime – a regime that denies rights to gays, women, and other faiths to name a few great things about them ?
sue me
Indeed yes, mark, if what one is saying is actually based on reputable sources and not self-formulated bullshit … or, as you suggest, “propaganda” of the most odious sort. We could not expect citations for such things as that, other than, “It’s my own knowledge”, or, “Everybody knows that …”
Glad you could make it to this thread, btw.
DW
Are you Geert Wilders by any chance?
Why would I waste my time doing that to a fourth rate shill like you? All I have to do is point out that you’re not only stealing somebody else’ intellectual property but that you have lied about doing – repeatedly.
mfi
See my comment @ 155.
mfi
So then, you agree with me, that oppressed and abused peoples, be they Arabs or Jews, or any other despised and downtrodden “untouchables”, should find a warm, generous and genuine welcome here, should be treated as equal to any of the rest of us?
Not in Israel, however, where they must learn what is their proper “place” and who are their betters?
You refuse to acknowledge that the very people whom YOU have termed “unwanted”, are, in fact, second-class “citizens” who are treated differently, which you suggest is merely “separately, but equally”, which is also an old and favored “ruse” of oppression and racial discrimination.
DW
Apart from the noooby hasbarite and his hasbarite shite a point that needs to be made is that the text of the agreement is choc a bloc with weasel words and get-out clauses that can be seized upon as a casus belli by the war mongers in Tel Aviv whenever they want one. I don’t see this ceasefire as being anything more than a temporary respite.
mfi
Aye, mark, “repetition” seems to be normalguy’s normal “routine” of deceitful and deceptive shilling. Frankly, “fourth rate” seems overly generous, under the “circumstances”.
DW
I never said any of that
Absolutely agree.
DW
I have not lied about anything. You are insane
Sorry cant agree with you DWBARtoo. Again, your psychotic hatred for anything Israel is sad and disturbing.
Look at your comment @81, normalguy.
The very last sentence.
Are those your words or those of someone else?
DW
Again @81, the very last line of your spiel.
… “unwanted people” … plain as day.
Argue with yourself.
Awwwww sod it dw now look what you’ve gone and done…..
It’s still only a hatchling troll not even adolescent and you’ ve hurt its feelings. Shame on you dw you can see that it’s only hatched a few days. Put your gloves on and pat its scaly little for it before its demented wailing causes it to hyperventilate.
(We’ll leave our inquiries into why on earth its parents let it out unchaperoned into the big wide world when it should be gaily disporting itself with its fellow hatchlings in the nursery for another day).
mfi
You’ve just lied again.
mfi
I forbid you to encourage him to play with himself in public this is a family friendly site.
mfi
…the text of the agreement is choc a bloc with weasel words and get-out clauses that can be seized upon as a casus belli by the war mongers in Tel Aviv whenever they want one. I don’t see this ceasefire as being anything more than a temporary respite…
Exactly my take on this purported ‘truce’…!
Aloha, Gor, I hope all is well with the keikis…! *g*
I preferred “unhinged” earlier, but as the evening has progressed……
All is very well Especially with the twins and Giorgious, who’re showing real musical talent
I trust the same is true for yours?
mfi
I shall endeavor, henceforth, to not do such things, for you are correct, the unseemly unhinged, unzipped and thrashing about, definitely frighten wee goggies and small kittehs …
;~DW
*snort* Btw, I think Bibi blinked, he stopped just short of the LoD…! Rachel Maddow had quipped earlier today that Israel had bombed up until the very last moment of said ‘Ceasefire’…! 8-(
Ahh you really are foolish. For Israel Unwanted people = suicide bombers who blow up night clubs and coffee shops and buses and that is what the security fence keeps out – unwanted suicide bombers
nice try though !
No I didnt
Not surprising, like most bullys Nethanyahu is a coward.
mfi
The Better Half and my Son just headed over to the little Momma’s house, I’ll be joining them all in the morning…! I’ve got two turkeys to cook…!
Enjoy it
.
mfi
Do you have a link to the original source? Or are you really solely in Israel Today’s portrayal of the information?
You quoted material from Israel Today, but without citing your source. However, like you, Israel Today neither mentioned the source of its information nor provided a link. So, I am not getting a sense of trust about the information.
Still, even from the material that you quoted, the Red Cross said that Israel is not permitting the Palestinians in Gaza to live a normal life.
Surely, that is nothing to be proud of, nor is it anything for which the U.S. should be using my tax money to support or reward.
Unlike many of Oblahblah’s promises, this one has a chance of manifesting as reality because the Republican base of neo theos finally decided that it was pro-Israel, after almost two thousand years of anti-Jewish passion plays and behavior.
And, Obama’s bloviating will result in support from Democrats in Congress. So, we have bi-partisan evil, the most effective kind.
Another example why voting for a Republican with a (D) after his or her name is not the lesser of two evils. Not by a long shot.
‘Fraid so. You’ve lied repeatedly and been caught doing it. Then you’ve lied about being a liar. Your problem is not only that you’re a liar but that you’re a dimwitted liar who tells blatant lies. Not only are your lies blatant but they’re also blatantly stupid. Try to come up with a better pack of lies next time OK? We’re used to a better class of troll here.
mfi
Too bad for you then
I already gave the source in Der Speigal and it has been reported in countless other publications. Well the Hamas govt is not permitting Israelis to live a normal life as they rain down thousands of rockets into Israeli cities for the last 10 years. Did you expect Israel to become more friendly to Hamas as a result ?
The main problem with Gaza is that the population is being held hostage by a taliban like radical islamic fundamentalist group that would rather smuggle rockets from Iran and play favorites with fellow Hamas members than take care of the population at large. Your inability (and others on here like you) to recognize or admit the enormous failures of Hamas and the mess Hamas has gotten the people of Gaza into is truly astounding.
You are the troll and the liar and spewer of hate. I have not lied about a single thing. I know you and your fellow Israel haters here don’t like your vicious little anti-Israel party to be interupted by any logic,truth, or another point of view but I am thrilled to ruin your party and stand up for what is right.
Not surprisingly you didnt understand the words at all. Your desperate pathetic hatred of Israel is clouding your brain. You would make Hamas proud though !
‘Unwanted people’ are the Palestinian suicide bombers which the security fence does a pretty good job of keeping out. Of course you would probably prefer that the suicide bomber found his target in an Israeli shopping mall and blew up a bunch of people
I link to your
inimitable knowledgeboilerplate Hasbara in a post here.>>
pictures tell a story
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vanunu-glove-box-bomb-components.jpg
how bout a little NNPT sweetie?
>>
how bout trying one of these?
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/media/92032/Original-copy-of-the-US-Constitution-housed-in-the-National
no rights is wrong, להבין?
If standing up for Israel against Hamas – the radical islamic jihadists who deny basic rights to woman and gays, who send and glorify suicide bombing, who cheered after 911, who won’t allow other faiths to be practiced in their midst, who want to take us all back to the 7 century sharia law, who fire rockets from civilian buildings… is Hasbara- then I am all over it and proudly so
Unfortunately, you are not the person who would be sued, it is FDL that would be sued because of YOUR abuse and that would cost everyone else
Oh, brother! The lengths people go to convince the unconvinceable. . .feckless attempts, but no matter. . .
Now I think the world is populated by humans who believe in levitation, synesthesia, and all other sorts of mind over matter. I’ve tried and it DOESN’T work.
A few years ago I worked at a bank — one of my customers who happened to be a physics professor assured me there was indeed something to this. It had to due with a multiverse of overlapping universes, many dimensions, and quantum mechanics. One could supposedly “steer” his own future to one or another version of reality (there are so many) largely by concentration and overpowering adverse entities trying to steer the wrong way.
This guy was a crank, I’ve since decided. There are, however, facts on the ground to analyze and act upon accordingly. They are not ideologically based, which is a disappointment, since there’s so little satisfaction in what we must do and that others, rogues, will disagree.
Agree – It is no different from what was agreed upon at the end of Operation Cast Lead. The cycle is likely to repeat or we are likely to see more violence before the year is over.
The article normalguy cut and pasted @ 12 is from “Israel Today,” which is a propaganda vehicle for the Likud party.
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/22757/Default.aspx
What is so funny about defending Israel from disingenuous ideologues like yourself who only promote anti-Israeli sentiments?
The mark of an obligate shit, normalguy, is that they HAVE to be right. It is by this method that you continue to smear the reputation of the good state of Israel. With supporters like you, anti-Israeli hatred is not needed.
Being thrilled to ruin another’s party is precisely what makes a troll a troll.
Imagining that one’s opinion is truth that can be neither examined nor criticized is what makes an ideologue an ideologue.
Please stop making Israel look bad by associating yourself with it.
I engaged the hasbara war for years, mostly at Washington Note when that was real active, and with far more informed and articulate commenters than his guy. Using reason, trying to make points, argue logic . . . sometimes you can get down the road a bit, even being cordial. But it always comes out the same. They have an agenda. Sort of like trying to reason with a christianist. And, as noted here, the hasbara inundate with articles, bogus history and appeal to authorities who are equally as rabid.
Like most things Israeli, they are well organized and focused, with a blind disregard for the suffering of the other, a stubbornly convinced righteous, and a schizy self image of both victim and and master. Israel is worsening by the day as a democracy (as are we). I go back to the refrain that the US virtual rubber stamp of all things Israeli has been infinitely more of a hindrance to peace in the region, and to a healthy Israel itself.
Years ago I argued at length about the difference between Judaism and right wing Zionism and, particularly, the moral cudgel of guilt that the AIPAC mindset uses to leverage US fealty and acts as a corrupting, and illegal, influence on our body politic. I would say that, from US government words and actions, the situation has only become more entrenched and worsened over the past 40-50 years.
Now, it seems, their is neither objective knowledge nor courage among the political class, and maybe even the diplomatic corps, to cut through all the propaganda.
Tere is an only way to solve this problem: A PALESTINIAN STATE must exist.Then no moré rochets will fall never again on Israel and will be a lasting peace. After 65 years the palestinian people and the entire mankind deserves this.
Oh Please. Your Hamasbara arguments are so morally bankrupt and hate filled as to be laughable
yeah right
I have engaged hate mongering one sided Israel bashers like you for years. You find comfort in a group of like minded haters who spew a one sided distortion of history and when you get challenged or someone points out the truth and another viewpoint and stands up for Israel and the Jewish people – you get all worked up and call it ‘hasbara’ – lol – and you cry foul, and that is all you can do because because you are standing on a mountain of lies and hate. Poor you.
You are so blind. It is you who is the idealogue. You have become so comfortable with and your gangs little anti-Israel festival here that you can’t take it when someone challenges you with and disagrees with you.
All you can do is respond with insults. Sad group here.
Instead of dealing with facts, it is easier for a hater like you to call anything positive about Israel a lie and propaganda. That is the standard operating procedure of Israel haters. Know it well, and it doesn’t work, and just exposes you even more as the Israel hater that you are. I wish you would stop hiding behind nonsense and euphemisms and have the courage to just the tell the truth about what you really are.
Sorry guy, you bring it on yourself. If you had “another point of view” that would be one thing. But you think you have the only point of view. Your ilk (that would be RW Zionists, just so you get it) owns the White House; they own the media; they own the Congress. But you don’t own FDL. Get used to it.
Have a nice day.
It is you who think you have the only ‘point of view’ and anything else is propaganda and lies. I am used to the old ant-semitic/anit-Zionist/anti-Israel canards you spew of Jews/Zionists control everything -as if they all get together as one entity. Are you going to cite the protocols of the elders of Zion for that ? My god you are sick. Sorry buddy won’t let you get away with your hate unchallenged and you don’t own FDL either.
“Hate”, hmmm I’m not feeling it here. Rather, I believe that it is love and empathy that makes a voice cry out for justice.