
"Drones & Domestic Surveillance" panel event at the National Press Club in DC
Drones are becoming much cheaper and easier to use, a reality that increases the possibility that the technology will become much more ubiquitous. With this kind of proliferation in mind, the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) held a panel discussion at the National Press Club on drones being a critical privacy issue in 2013.
Amie Stepanovich, an EPIC privacy attorney who has testified before Congress on this issue twice, said estimates indicate there could be up to 30,000 drones in US airspace by 2020 under legislation just passed. The current state of the law is inadequate to address the threat posed to privacy. There should be warrant standards, data use & retention limitations and transparency requirements passed into law.
Currently, the courts consider each individual type of technology and apply constitutional standards to the use of such technology. Each piece of technology carries the threshold of when a person would “reasonably expect” privacy. Laura Donohue, a Georgetown Law School professor, highlighted how the Fourth Amendment does not contemplate the use of drones for continuous surveillance. Fourth Amendment was developed under the presumption that public space would be an open field and when people are in public space they would lose an expectation of privacy. It is next to impossible under current understandings of the law to apply the Fourth Amendment to the use of drones, which is why legislation of Congress is necessary.
Orin Kerr, a George Washington Law University professor, largely concurred. If surveillance is being conducted from US airspace, he said there are typically no Fourth Amendment issues.
Both Bruce Schneier, who publishes writing on security issues and topics at “Schneier on Security,” and Julian Sanchez of the CATO Institute urged the audience to consider the future instead of only the present day. To communicate the kind of transformation that the world could potentially undergo, Sanchez used a story to describe how there could be an armada of drones flying around one day monitoring all people to catch whomever might do something wrong. The reason why he raised this notion was not necessarily because it could or will happen but because, in his opinion, the public is good at addressing surveillance in terms of individual intrusions of privacy but rarely does the public consider how the scale of surveillance could impact civilization.
In public space, a person knows when their privacy could be intruded. Drones change that by making surveillance of a person possible in all areas of society, Sanchez explained.
Schneier suggested Americans should have conversations about the laws and regulations they would want to have in a world of drones now instead of later. It is very easy to say that there are certain capabilities that drones just do not have yet or that they are not used predominantly and in ways that are authoritarian. However, that does not mean that they could not or would not ever. The drift—the reality that people could be more accepting of certain uses when the technology is normalized—should be prepared for now rather than later when there are few patents and vested interests have not fully developed.
The public should realize that the surveillance from drones may not be as threatening to privacy as suggested. However, worse violations and intrusions may be made possible by drones being used along with cell phone technology or data retention, etc.
Donohue spoke about the convergence of biometrics and facial recognition technology with drones. This could be used by the FBI and other agencies in government, like the Defense Department. Databases could be converged to enable interoperability among government agencies. A world where this happened often would be a world where drones could be gathering information on multiple people at a distance in public without notice or consent on a continual basis. Unlike how biometrics are used now, where people know they are being used on them and there is usually some level of consent, that would not be the case with drones.
There is a Drone Lobby and it will be tremendously powerful. Gretchen West of Association for Unmanned Vehicle Systems International (AUVSI) spoke at the event about the benefits of drones, how it could create tens of thousands of jobs and downplayed privacy issues. She said that only in the United States are drones perceived as such a critical privacy issue, complete nonsense that marginalizes foreign persons while at the same time suggesting privacy advocates are unreasonable. She added the FAA should not be involved in managing privacy guidelines that could be applied to drone operators (EPIC disagrees).
People like West, who engages in advocacy for corporations and businesses in the growing drone industry, will have much more power to influence Congress in the coming years. Right now, congressmen are hearing from constituents who are understandably concerned and they are offering legislation to regulate drone use. Rep. Ed Markey, a Democrat, has proposed a bill to “require privacy considerations for drone licenses” and “create public website that list all approved drone licenses.”
Rep. Ted Poe, a Republican, introduced legislation during the previous session to “provide for limitations on the domestic use of drones in investigating regulatory and criminal offenses, and for other purposes.” He addressed the audience at the event today and argued there should be definite guidelines for law enforcement on what they can and cannot do. Fourth Amendment standards should be applied to the use of drones. The right to privacy should be protected, and warrants should be required except under “exigent circumstances” that already exist in current law. (There was no Democratic Representative at the event, though Rep. Zoe Lofgren was invited and Rep. Markey sent a staffer.)
Of course, one doubts the ability of Congress to pass anything that could meaningfully protect privacy rights. There is an immense amount of secrecy around this issue right now. Groups like EPIC, the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) have submitted FOIA requests and are waiting for a response. This may even be the case for some members of Congress that have been interested in how law enforcement plans to use the technology.
The government will not share details on how it plans to deal with the proliferation of drones. That is because it wants to give businesses and law enforcement wide latitude for their use. So, if the public is concerned about threats to privacy, there will have to be a groundswell of concern and opposition to pushing ahead without establishing privacy protections.



44 Comments

Any legislation should contemplate the private use of drones for surveillance. The affordability of the technology opens up the space to all sorts of operators of drones. And then contemplate all of the invasions of privacy that could occur through the actions of private hobbyists.
There is even the possibility for private watchdog groups to use drone surveillance of government activities.
I was thinking that having a government drone watching over me to protect me from harm might not be a bad thing.
But, OTOH, who’s gonna watch the watchers??I got it!!! We just watch the “bad guys”.
See how simple tha was. No need to bother the ACLU.
If you want regulations on private use just get the OWS to buy a few and fly them over the Hamptons.
You are sooo devious sometimes.
How would bothering the “upper-middle-class” get legislation. Flying over Northern Virginia is more reliable.
Either way you would see Federal legislation prohibiting OWS or any other free speech 1st amendment mongering groups strictly prohibited from operating drones.
hmmm, I thought this was happening now anyway…
How soon will it be before we hear about local law enforcement agencies arming their fleets of surveillance drones, which they have begun to acquire? You can just imagine the Barney Fifes in Sheriff “Crazy” Joe Arpaio’s office.
There are so many “suspected” bad people in our Country the need for Drones will be incredible. It will all stop when one of the drones gets sucked into the Gulfstream jet of a Bankster or one of the Walton billionaires.
Also, it won’t be long before some of our intrepid citizens construct Neighborhood Surveillance Drones in their garages using off the shelf parts and open source plans and add to the glut of drones. The evening news will become lively when they begin reporting drone mishaps, shoot outs, and the need to regulate the ownership and use of private drones.
I hadn’t thought of that eventuality but you are right. A well regulated militia would obviously need drones so if you can’t take my assault rifle you can’t take my drone or hellfire missile either.
2nd Amendment BABY!
What a delightful thought.
From Buck Rogers to SkyNet…… Hope these drones don’t pull a Descartes. Think? http://www.renedescartes.com/. Where people become chum for a drone feeding frenzy?
I’m watching allot of cable T.V. so I apologize.
Especially if it’s intentional. And I can think of a few others too.
Constitutional Standards. Right. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Like with Pond Scum Feinsteins FISA law, ….right. Check.
And the NSA’s Bluffdale Utah facility.. right. Check
And the latest appellate Court’s overturning Judge Forests ruling on
the NDAA…… right. Check
etc. Check
Constitutional Standards.
note to self..file under…
Yer killin me.
I don’t and I wasn’t being sarcastic.
At the conclusion of most of our modern wars war surplus becomes available to the general public. Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t some of the aging Predators from the Iraq War are already being sold, and licensed, to state and local law enforcement agencies? When the Vietnam War ended the U.S. Army had the world’s largest helicopter fleet which they began to sell to a variety of civilian agencies: fire departments, police, hospitals, news agencies, etc. I’ll never forget when I first heard the sound of a helicopter hovering over my hippie neighborhood in the 70s.
Have you read about the federal prisons set up thru the sparsely populated spaces of the middle US states to house special prisoners in near total isolation? The American gulag right here in America. I think there are five, or maybe it’s seven, of them.
Three seconds after the first hobbyist arms theirs. (Hobbyists have already tested the principles with paintball guns.)
First they came for the “undocumenteds”, eh…
I wonder if at least some of the people behind the NJ municipal consolidation push are thinking ahead to fully militarizing consolidated police departments: my little boro hasn’t the budget, the tax base or the rationale for such acquisitions, but a consolidated Gloucester County police force certainly would. Camden County just passed and is implementing a county wide consolidation of police and the county absolutely could support a full police militarization. We’ll live, we’ll see, but I wouldn’t put anything past dictatorial power mongers.
Are those the new Apple assembly centers – bringing jobs home to America?
How long have miniature airplanes been around? I knew a guy who was mini airplane crazy. Built them and loved flying them. Lots of people are intimately familiar with the technologies.
I wish that were funny.
They’re way ahead of ya.
http://www.businessinsider.com/britain-new-supersonic-drone-uav-taranis-will-replace-bomber-fleet-2013-1
Did someone mention autonomous? Shades of the Matrix. Give it 10 years and reality will make it look like a comedy.
Welcome to TOTALATARIANISM-R-US on steroids. And here I though Orwell’s view of the future was ..let’s just say..ummm..”impossible”. I wish he were here to see it. I need a fucking lobotomy.
Btw, seen the new “smart” TV’s? Just what the Surveillance State ordered. And it’s not just TV’s either. Your home will be filled with all the latest spy gadgets. And they “talk” to each other. Of course, once they target your body with an autonomous chip..all bets are off. And then it’s one step away from this….
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2011/10/in-time-review/
Just think, you won’t even need debit cards. Just trade a few days of your life for a cup of coffee. How cool can that be. Right.
I know what you mean. I have been haunted for years by the lyric from Leonard Cohen’s song The Future: “I have seen the future, baby/ And it is murder”
Federal CORPORATE private prisons…soon to be CORPORATE prisons complete with stock owning Judges. Think not? It’s already happened. Judges sentencing people simply to fill empty beds…in THEIR prisons. Perfect. The ‘Murican free enterprise system in all it’s bloody glory. Commin up…Judges sentencing ‘mericans to death via their very own Corporate Drones. Youbetcha.
If you’ve seen the devolution of police departments from the 60s to the present you can see how militarized our police have become. You could be correct in your line of thinking concerning local gov’t. Have you noticed how quickly supposed financially strapped states and municipalities have come up with funds for having armed guards in their schools at the behest of the NRA? Public school districts can’t afford to pay their teachers, have dropped art and music courses, can barely maintain aging school infrastructure, yet the funds now exist for armed guards. So if the DoD is selling drones at bargain basement rates even some of the smallest communities will soon be acquiring them.
The old Angola Louisiana prison come round again. According to a documentary, in that system, the average lifespan was, if I recall correctly, five years. Which means most prisoners, largely a black population, of course, didn’t serve out their sentences and left because they were dead.
I completely believe that, while drones do have a national security purpose (though there are issues obviously), drones categorically should not be used in the domestic US for anything vaguely related to surveillance, national security, etc., *in particular* by any private entity.
As well as groups prepared to shoot back. Oh, fun times, I tell you, a laugh a minute. Well, at some point, we may find out how our targets in other countries live. But, bold prediction here, we won’t learn a thing.
They are definitely being flown here and the private entity part I don’t know about but wouldn’t be at all surprised.
This all reminds me that at one time the Church tried to ban crossbows.
ps..ya know, any one considering bringing a kid into this world at this point is fucking insane.
Kudos to Kevin G for another of his thought provoking posts! And I appreciate the comments it has elicited.
I disagree, the world has never been a safe place, but I get your point. Sometimes the unsafety of it all breaks thru the pretty cover.
Far out. I’ll let DHS know your how you feel immediately. I’m positive they’ll take it in consideration…
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
did I mention..yer killin me here?
dagnabit. ya’ll’s workin me to death.
http://blogs.hbr.org/cs/2013/01/the_booming_business_of_drones.html
quote:”I, for one, welcome our new drone overlords.” unquote
I’ll try DOLTS for 2k.
I must agree with BPF! I constantly consider how fortunate I am in the fact that I have no children. What an existence they will have. Climate change, resource wars, corporatized water supplies, and a totalitarian govt to boot. Food will undoubtedly be scarce and the plutocrats shall rule, as is their divine right, which ha, of course, been bought and paid for…
America needs constitutional amendments to ban the use of ALL drones in the United States of America as well as red-light cameras!
These fascists will continue to chip away at our personal freedoms in the name of “security” and soon we will be subjugated and unable to respond.
I say if you see a drone, shoot it down with your AR-15 if possible using all 30 rounds in your clip. If you can find the operator, ditto, especially empty the clip!
I predict that terrorism will soon start here in this country when honest citizens band together to kill the terrorists, the ones hiding in the police uniforms.
Fuck the terrorists! Soon there won’t be any unemployment. Citizens will be too busy laying ambushes for the terrorists!
I also envision a time when the range of various weapons will be plotted around government building and patriots will send along magazines full of rounds in a warning to the occupants to go underground to get into the pig stys where they think they will rule.
I believe the criminal congress needs to read the stories of Mussolini and Chouchescu and his wife, that’s what these traitors have coming to them when Americans have finally had enough to their lying, thieving shit. I pray to see the day, although I am non-violent and believe in loving the fuckers to death!
Gee, thousands of unmanned aircraft in the sky, what could possibly go wrong?
Maybe This.
yep
Drones will be ubiquitous very soon. Check out diydrones.com